Forum Posts: 15 | Comment #1 by kriscakegravy Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 04:42:35 AM | |
| Fuck Microsoft. |
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Forum Posts: 182 | Comment #2 by alf hockeyfan Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 04:47:05 AM | |
| its always easy to blame some one else.... heres a radical idea.... don`t release a fucked up game! |
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Forum Posts: 0 | Comment #3 by El Mago de Oz Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 04:48:18 AM | |
| Sad to read. I believe real fans of the game will stay true to it and support Polytron. Microsoft are just money-hungry bastards. |
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Forum Posts: 11 | Comment #4 by Ark_Thompson Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 04:50:22 AM | |
It's not about blaming someone else. It's about not making pay 40 000 $ for a PATCH ! How could you promote indie gaming with such ideas ?
Even though I love the 360 I can clearly say Microsoft are fucking retards here... |
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Forum Posts: 17 | Comment #5 by Mr Chr15topher Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 04:52:52 AM | |
@2 it's nearly impossible nowadays to release a completely bug free game. That's why games have patches.
F**k you Micro$oft, why can't you let people improve their games for YOUR customers! |
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Forum Posts: 304 | Comment #6 by Exu Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 04:55:13 AM | |
Microsoft's policy needs work, that I think we can all agree on, but Fish is more at fault here. His head's been up his own backside since the very beginning and all he's doing is burning bridges with absolutely everyone.
Remember PC gamers, when Fez comes to Steam he said your platform was "for spreadsheets".
Besides, the dickhead is rolling in money from Yet Another Mediocre Indie Platformer's sales and awards. The very least he could do is give a little back but unfortunately he's a lazy prick who likes money and attention. |
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Forum Posts: 17 | Comment #7 by Mr Chr15topher Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 04:56:54 AM | |
| @2 per my previous comment, refer to Battlefield 3. How many times have they released patches and how much memory have they taken up, but the game is still buggy as hell. |
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Forum Posts: 169 | Comment #8 by Arron114 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 04:59:03 AM | |
This guy never stops moaning.
@5 nowdays? Why did we have better play testers yesteryear?
@2 I agree, play testing seems to be a thing of the past. They could have paid 80 students 500 $$ each to play test the damn thing and it would have been cheaper.
Games these days relay on patches to rush games out , how many times have you loaded up a new title on the day of release, and managed to piss your friends list off as you have to patch it day one. |
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Forum Posts: 776 | Comment #9 by XxStuartxX 1990 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:02:34 AM | |
@5,
But why? I can understand huge games like elder scrolls and such but look back to the last gen games like Vice city were bug free (well it was for me).
IMO the option to patch has made certain devs somewhat lazy and rush their games out with the idea of 'we can fix it later' then when they realise the price its like 'oh shit'.
I stand by Microsoft on this one charging people to patch there things as they should go through a lot of testing.
And IMO gaming needs a governing body that determines what is fair for the customer, just look at cinema, a lot of films get put straight on DVD as they aren't deemed good enough for cinema release, if gaming had one of these then shocking games would not be sell-able at full price.... but that's another story. |
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Forum Posts: 25 | Comment #10 by DarthTrakd Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:04:34 AM | |
99% fix, less than 1% issues.... WHERE'S THE REST OF THE PERCENTAGES?!?!?! lol
Sucks that MS charges so much for something which they have already been paid for and are quite likely getting a large ammount of subscriptions for the privilage from players..... if only it wasn't the best console around.... |
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Forum Posts: 300 | Comment #11 by BUZZARDIO 1080 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:04:34 AM | |
| @5 nearly impossible, or just a bit to much hard work. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #12 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:07:39 AM | |
@8
There are many, many games with glitches from the 'old days'. Games are much more complicated these days. Achievements, Xbox Live, even saving your game wasn't an absolute with older games. You're honestly going to blame the developer for something which Microsoft is charging a ridiculous price for. It's quite evident that they want to fix the game and I'm sure we'd also have less glitched achievements if Microsoft had a similar system to Steam. Just look at Left 4 Dead and how long the Sacrifizzle achievement took to be patched compared to Steam...it's ridiculous. |
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Forum Posts: 53 | Comment #13 by Throrin Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:11:11 AM | |
The coin has two sides.
1st side is Microsoft. They charge too much for these tasks and they have to re-think their policies and costs.
2nd side is Polytron. Before they bring their game on XBL they knew the costs. It is not something that appeared from nowhere. They decided the platform because they expected more sales from any other platform thus the expenses where justified.
My opinion is that developers have to be more careful before they release a game to be as bug free as possible and they have to give blame to their selves first for their mistakes and then give blame to a condition that they knew beforehand. |
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Forum Posts: 169 | Comment #14 by Arron114 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:13:26 AM | |
@12 Yes I am. It should be an incentive to bring your games out working. Imagine what kind of shit we would be dealing with if it was free to patch? The 360 has been out for 7 years, there is little excuse for not knowing the platform you're creating your games on. Fez doesn't exactly stretch new graphical boundaries as well.
Like @11 and 9 said, its a fall back to rush things out . Though that's an ironic statement considering this game was about 3 years in the making. |
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Forum Posts: 300 | Comment #15 by BUZZARDIO 1080 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:13:47 AM | |
@12 " its quite evident they want to fix the game", they dont want to fix it that much or they would, as lee said its all about the money.
,and maybe if fish cant make the game without bugs hes not as good at making games as he thinks he is. |
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Forum Posts: 1199 | Comment #16 by UberPirateNinja Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:19:21 AM | |
| Be interesting to hear Microsoft respond to this. |
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Forum Posts: 460 | Comment #17 by GDMFS0AB Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:20:03 AM | |
So that cry baby twat who bitches all over twitter actually paid to be exclusive!
Microsoft must have seen him coming. What an idiot! Steam is far superior to xbox live arcade. |
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Forum Posts: 1525 | Comment #18 by Baihu1983 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:21:21 AM | |
I had never played so many unfinished/untested games until this gen.
Yes 40k is high and MS and Sony need to sort that out but too many devs seem happy to release now fix later.
Oh and the japanese devs are laughing at you right now. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #19 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:26:30 AM | |
@14 You mean like a similar system to Steam? PC gamers love both Valve and Steam. Games get patched there over and over and don't have this problem. Yes, there can be the issue of having rushed games but in this case I think the main problem is with Microsoft.
Also, as far as I'm aware this is not a graphical issue so the graphical boundaries are irrelevant. What I will so though is that Fez would not have been possible on older systems (or at least would have been very dumbed down) because of the way that it manipulates the environment. As someone who programs games myself, I know of a number of issues that could occur. Whilst I have only just finished my Game Development course, I can't count the number of times I'd have testing a game on other machine and receiving plenty of problems.
Something I will say is that I didn't develop anything for the 360. However, you might remember the issues with the 360 version of Bully. For whatever reason, the game had many glitches on a regular persons 360 but in a developers system the game worked fine. Somehow, Rockstar ended up seemingly printing the wrong version on the discs which then meant that the game needed to be patched. It resulted in the game being generally reviewed well, but with consumers having plenty of problems. I'll state that as an example of something that can go wrong, not as an excuse. Clearly, in this case, if they did print the wrong version then it would be their fault.
I'll agree with you in regard to them not knowing the platform which they are releasing games on. I'm going to assume that the problems with XBLA is why Penny Arcade is releasing their latest game to the Indie section. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #20 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:30:42 AM | |
| @15 They don't want to fix it for $40,000, but on Steam it would have been a significantly less costly and quicker fix. It's up to you whose fault that is, but do remember that fact. |
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Forum Posts: 444 | Comment #21 by MoldyClay87 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:50:16 AM | |
That's great and all, but they didn't even really test it in the first place. They released a buggy-ass game that should have been tested and then they didn't test their patch properly.
So sucks to be them that it costs so much, but Polytron is the very reason the game and patch are a mess and they're retarded for releasing either of them without proper testing.
Anyway, I already completed the game with everything anyway, so this is irrelevant to me. |
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Forum Posts: 236 | Comment #22 by Blazman83 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:52:25 AM | |
| M$ will be sorry when one day all these gamers that have been so loyal to them for 10+ yrs, simply opt for somthing else. This is a disgrace! Reminds me of a similar problem Valve had when trying to patch an achievement for Left 4 Dead, also when they released DLC that was free on the PC but M$ made them charge for it on the Xbox. So basically if you wanted to 100% L4D 1 & 2 you had to buy the SAME dlc twice (literally both games had EXACTLY the same achievements for this DLC) What a joke!! |
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Forum Posts: 9 | Comment #23 by DJSambob Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:54:24 AM | |
It could introduce more bugs?
Not if you fucking test the crap out of it! |
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Forum Posts: 256 | Comment #24 by neo consumer Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:08:59 AM | |
| This developer needs to go bust. Hey, we got your money so go fuck yourself. Cunts. |
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Forum Posts: 11 | Comment #25 by gearsofmetroid Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:13:25 AM | |
| Okay they shouldn't have released it faulty but for fuck sake Microsoft stop driving people away surely this can only hurt them. They get an innovative, exclusive and quirky game then there pushing them away. Ultimately its gonna hurt us the consumer. exclusives is why I got Xbox in the first place |
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Forum Posts: 97 | Comment #26 by Predator Pete Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:14:47 AM | |
| Hahaha eat it Fish. At least Japanese games work, right? RIGHT? |
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Forum Posts: 60 | Comment #27 by Wtfmissile Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:15:22 AM | |
| lol@the thumbs down for #1. He says fuck MS for being greedy assholes, which in this case is 100% true and the fanboys wanna say otherwise. Gets me every time. |
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Forum Posts: 1511 | Comment #28 by yamayamayaamaa Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:16:32 AM | |
I used to follow Polytron on twitter but had to unfollow because all they do is whine.
These are the people who were hating on Minecraft because it got better support from MS. The reason now is apparent... |
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Forum Posts: 60 | Comment #29 by Preedatore Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:22:30 AM | |
| This guy doesn't make sense. No developer would pay for the "right" to release on only one platform. What would you have to gain by releasing on just xbl and paying money to do it? If he wanted to sell the most units on a single platform he should have went steam. Look at Orcs Must Die. The sequel isn't on xbl because of poor sales, just steam this go round. Indie games just fare better on pc over consoles. |
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Forum Posts: 25 | Comment #30 by mr greenfish Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:39:28 AM | |
As much as I've loved my 360 over the years, all these Patching horror stories along with the Gold subscription, Ad's and messy dashboard; these issues are really starting to put me off Microsoft. I really hope they iron this stuff out for the next console.
The only reason right I currently play my 360 instead of my PS3 is because of the megaton of Firmware updates that the PS3 issues, in fact I wish Sony received hefty costs for each firmware Patch, can you imagine :S |
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Forum Posts: 140 | Comment #31 by x_Silxx_x Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:42:58 AM | |
| I bet COD devs don't pay 40k to release a patch each time. |
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Forum Posts: 228 | Comment #32 by the action frampton Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:50:39 AM | |
“We’re not going to patch the patch. Why not? Because Microsoft would charge us tens of thousands of dollars to re-certify the game,”. Cry me a fucking river. If they got the game tested properley to begin with, then it wouldn't be a problem - don't try blaming MS.
I can only imagin how much £ Polytron has made from sales. And to top it off they try and convince us that they have to pay MS to make it an exclusive?! How stupid do they think we are.
I said from the start that Phil Fish was a cock, and everyone hated on me for it. Still don't agree with me now? |
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Forum Posts: 0 | Comment #33 by stianpuz Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:56:38 AM | |
| @31 40k is nothing to them though |
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Forum Posts: 25 | Comment #34 by DisturbedPsic0 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:16:20 AM | |
| I obviously know nothing about how the game being unique to Microsoft works, but why in the world would you pay to not release your game on other consoles? Why spend money to not release on PS3 or Steam? I think some clarification would be nice, because they way they stated it, it makes them seem utterly retarded for paying to limit their audience. |
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Forum Posts: 304 | Comment #35 by Exu Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:19:23 AM | |
| Polytron is an angram of Only Port. |
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Forum Posts: 40 | Comment #36 by Q Dawg187 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:19:40 AM | |
No sympathy for this dev,they release broken games and broken patches and are too cheap/cant be arsed to fix it?
If steam was a much better choice,then why didnt they release on that? Oh right,because the xbox is more family friendly and had a chance to sell more.
He wants to make more money,and likes to be cheap about it,fuck him and his company.
We need some sort of regulatory body here,this perma broken,unpatched shit needs to stop.I dont have any DVD's that broke my dvd player,I dont have any books that cause my eyes to fall out.Stop rushing your fucking games and actually test them properly for a change.Your whining makes me as sick as Bioware makes me now a days.Personally I hope you go out of business and every other company has the sense to not hire you. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #37 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:20:14 AM | |
@32 Let me break this down for you. I believe that Fez sold around 100,000 copies.
The game sold at $10 which means that a total of $1,000,000 was made. On XBLA, the split means that 70% goes to the developer which makes around $700,000. I'm not sure what the development costs were for Fez but it's safe to assume that a decent amount was spent on it. So $40,000 was already spent on a patch bringing it down to $660,000, a further patch would then bring it down to $620,000 and then $580,000. This money has not been spend but let's look at the Kickstarter for a game like Wasteland 2 which asked for $900,000 or Double Fine's Kickstarter that asked for $400,000. If we have $660,000 then that doesn't really leave a whole lot left and company's need to grow to make better games.
I'm not saying that it's great but unfortunately that's how it is. |
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Forum Posts: 190 | Comment #38 by ash356 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:21:03 AM | |
Well, seems to me both parties are at fault.
@32 has already pretty much explained Polytrons faults.
As for MS... surely there should be instances where they could just consider DROPPING the charge? Sure, it would cost them money, but isn't this the kind of thing the £40 most of us spend for live each year goes towards? Better service? Seeing as MS isn't doing jack***t about games that close down servers, they could at least spend a bit to ensure we get bug-free games. -_- |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #39 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:25:14 AM | |
| @38 Absolutely, this is definitely the kind of think I would expect my £40 to go towards. |
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Forum Posts: 169 | Comment #40 by Arron114 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:31:18 AM | |
@32 Fez surpassed 1000000 by the end of may
You arnt Fish are you? If I dangle minecraft stats at you , are you going to go mental and reveal your true identity?
Problem for fish and co now is if they bring it out on DOTW for a second wave of sales unwilling to fix it, whos gonna buy it? This rant just seems to be doing more harm then good. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #41 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:41:05 AM | |
| @40 If Microsoft promoted it, maybe. But if it was sold at half the price then it would need to sell double the copies to justify the original amount it would have needed from before. |
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Forum Posts: 8 | Comment #42 by t035t3r Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:42:15 AM | |
| never release a game on friday the 13th.....end of lol |
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Forum Posts: 530 | Comment #43 by o D M C o Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:51:34 AM | |
''We already owe Microsoft a LOT of money for the privilege of being on their platform. People often mistakenly believe that we got paid by Microsoft for being exclusive to their platform. Nothing could be further from the truth. WE pay THEM''.
The above leaves only 1 of two possibilities;
1. The bullshit option... This guy is a complete bullshitter who thinks people are gonna be taken in by any old bollocks that issues forth from his mouth.
2. The honest but moronic business man option... It is almost unimaginable how fucking thick you would need to be to pay MS (or any other company) for exclusivity on their console. How the fuck did MS manage to persuade him that thats the way it usually works?
2. |
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Forum Posts: 530 | Comment #44 by o D M C o Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:53:43 AM | |
| I have no idea where that extra 2. came from :) |
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Forum Posts: 451 | Comment #45 by Mr Matty Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:53:55 AM | |
Patches for single player games are just a show of poor Q&A
For online games it's a much different story as you can't really test huge numbers on their local networks and Betas never have the shipped numbers.
Honestly 40k for a Tu is way too much and in such cases stop the smaller company's from even bothering.
@8 old games are not really of the same content to compare to this gens.
Even then loads had glitches bugs etc that NEVER got fixed. |
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Forum Posts: 169 | Comment #46 by Arron114 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:54:16 AM | |
@21 Not really, it will attract people who wouldn't normally pay 800 for a title. Its a no-lose situation really as its not a physical product and you wouldn't lose revenue in stock , distribution etc. The only fiscal lose would be if someone bought it at 400 that would have at 800 and I truly believe that ship has sailed.
This situation detracts the target audience for the sales, as noone wants a broken game. regardless of the cost.
DOTW : FEZ 400 MSP , nah I heard its fucked I wont bother.
But its evident Fish cant keep his mouth shut, no matter how departmental to his business, see minecraft and the ridicules Japanese comment.
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Forum Posts: 169 | Comment #47 by Arron114 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:55:19 AM | |
*@41
Does it cost x360a 40k to add an edit button to its comments section ? :) |
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Forum Posts: 11 | Comment #48 by Callam001 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:05:39 AM | |
| ok first off, being charged money to issue a patch is fucking ridiculous that's just money grabbing. However you cant over look the fact they are screwing there fans over to save a bit cash. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #49 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:18:02 AM | |
@46
That's true but that's only assuming that this is 50% or more people that would buy it for 400 in the first place.
@47
My point is that the costs shouldn't be so high. A patch could be made and then put out, if Microsoft wouldn't charge so much for this to happen. |
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Forum Posts: 300 | Comment #50 by BUZZARDIO 1080 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:22:42 AM | |
| @20 Yeah i hear you , but he choose FEZ to be xbla exclusive didnt he? |
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Forum Posts: 190 | Comment #51 by ash356 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:32:42 AM | |
@49
The counter-point is that those high costs should encourage developers such as this to ensure there are no bugs remaining. I mean, the phrase, 'Don't wanna pay the fine, don't do the crime' comes to mind.
Plus, even though they may be pushed for a release date, the first patch is completely FREE. So one could argue that they should have just sorted it all out in their first patch. They evidently didn't, and now they're refusing to correct their failure. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #52 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:33:02 AM | |
| @50 Yeah and if he did indeed pay for exclusivity, then it seems like a poor decision at this point. |
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Forum Posts: 169 | Comment #53 by Arron114 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:34:29 AM | |
@Seto
Have no doubt im enjoying this conversation. Its refreshing you havent called me names or linked me to a picture of a cat yet.
Personally id run a policy that allowed you to put forward one patch for free then make it chargeable thereafter. Id also make the policy known to the consumer so they know if they are being ripped off by day one patches that dont fix things etc.
We arnt gonna find a solution to the problem any time soon. But I do think Fish approaches things like a toddler and not a professional, its not very inspiring. But on the flip side MS are very much , these are the rules, stick to them. Without any movement at all. Very wooden for this day and age. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #54 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:38:44 AM | |
| @51 Ah yes, I had forgotten that the first patch is free. However, whilst it's not unreasonable to want a game without bugs I don't really think that it's entirely feasible all of the time. Ultimately, you can do all of the testing that you want and be completely thorough but that doesn't mean that each and every one will be fixed. There have been a number of occasions where I have had to essentially 'patch' my own games after I had gone through nothing but testing each and everyday for around 4 months. I'm not calling it acceptable but it's something that is unfortunately also true. |
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Forum Posts: 300 | Comment #55 by BUZZARDIO 1080 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:43:16 AM | |
@52 it does seem crazy to pay to have your game on one console, thats like totally the wrong way round.So at this point im very much doubting that was the case.
like so many on this forum are saying companies pay to have your product as an exclusive , the other wat round is plain and simple business suicide.
on a side note, i loved tearing the shit out of warehouse on TONK hawk this morning, so many memories ;0) |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #56 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:47:00 AM | |
@53
"Have no doubt im enjoying this conversation. Its refreshing you havent called me names or linked me to a picture of a cat yet."
Absolutely, I can see the points which you are making and I agree and disagree with some.
"Personally id run a policy that allowed you to put forward one patch for free then make it chargeable thereafter."
I'd forgotten that actually I believe the first patch is free but $40,000 is still a lot of money in comparison to something like Steam.
"Id also make the policy known to the consumer so they know if they are being ripped off by day one patches that dont fix things etc."
That sounds like a good idea in theory but for that to happen then the developer would also have to be able to fix it. This is basically saying "This game needs fixing, so don't buy it. But we're not going to let you fix it either...unless you pay us $40,000".
"We arnt gonna find a solution to the problem any time soon. But I do think Fish approaches things like a toddler and not a professional, its not very inspiring. But on the flip side MS are very much , these are the rules, stick to them. Without any movement at all. Very wooden for this day and age."
I agree, Fish isn't all that professional but as you say Microsoft isn't much help either. This is a problem for them too. |
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Forum Posts: 169 | Comment #57 by Arron114 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:47:21 AM | |
@51 I was unaware of the first patch being free. very little excuse for me then.
Small fish in a big pond. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #58 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:49:47 AM | |
| @55 Yeah, that's the one part of this that I do not understand. You would pay for being on XBLA but I would have thought that exclusivity would be another matter. |
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Forum Posts: 194 | Comment #59 by L3G1T H4MST3R Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:50:12 AM | |
| @51 I thought the phrase was 'If you can't do the time, don't do the crime' |
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Forum Posts: 69 | Comment #60 by ViPeR6 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:50:35 AM | |
| Exactly what the fuck am I paying $60 a year for? |
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Forum Posts: 463 | Comment #61 by francisrossi Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 09:00:15 AM | |
| Be nice if you could get a refund for digital games, since Fez is completely broken for me. I don't care whose fault it is. All I know is that I'm out of pocket. It's a great game, but I'm not prepared to play a broken game any further. |
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Forum Posts: 300 | Comment #62 by BUZZARDIO 1080 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 09:07:56 AM | |
@58 oh well, maybe he had some master plan thats above us all.
releasing so close to mine craft was also a bold ,move,
that juganaut seems unstoppable ,ive never seen so many people on my friends list playing the same game,(except for cod release days obviously). |
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Forum Posts: 190 | Comment #63 by ash356 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 09:08:37 AM | |
@59
That's the more common one, but both are usable. I've heard it used for stuff like littering and car parking infractions, where jail isn't the primary punishment. |
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Forum Posts: 38 | Comment #64 by Aussie27Legend Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 09:10:15 AM | |
| This is something Microsoft really has to address with the 720, or no developers (especially smaller ones eho can use Steam and now Ouya) will put their games on their platform :( |
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Forum Posts: 300 | Comment #65 by BUZZARDIO 1080 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 09:12:03 AM | |
| @63 and late returns to the library .(sorry) ;) |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #66 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 09:13:23 AM | |
@61 Complain to Microsoft. If people can get a refund for not being able to play 4 player split screen on SDTVs in Minecraft then you should for this.
@62 Actually, I don't think that developers get a great amount of say when they are released as far as I'm aware. I've heard people complain about it anyway. |
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Forum Posts: 835 | Comment #67 by True Marvellous Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 10:03:49 AM | |
Polytron are a bit slow in the brain if you ask me, why would you pay to be exclusive to one platform.
The reason a platform holder pays you to be exclusive to your brand is because you are limiting your customer base.
I do think its ridiculas how much Ms charge to issue a path but I also have no sympathy for Polytron as they have released a patch with a game ending bug in it. Whislt they may have made a great game their rep has taken a big hit imo and the press release today is a big FU to its customers.
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Forum Posts: 914 | Comment #68 by i fist brown i Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 10:29:55 AM | |
i could only imagine if patching was free....
games would be absolute shit on release! developers would just put games out on the market with a severe mentality of "we'll patch later, it's free"
At least now they know that if their game is glitchy it will limit their sells and be costly to fix.
At first I thought, "microsoft are dicks" but then i realized, its not microsoft... its the developers that are dicks! his %1 theory is rational, but if were talking 300,000 sales (?) that means 3,000 ppl who paid 10 dollars ($30,000) are getting fucked over because this DICK doesnt want to pay $10,000. |
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Forum Posts: 463 | Comment #69 by francisrossi Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 10:37:26 AM | |
| @68 - That's been the stereotype of PC development for years now. The rise of the internet for consoles have shown it to be perfectly legitimate criticism... |
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Forum Posts: 914 | Comment #70 by i fist brown i Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 10:38:58 AM | |
| @69, so are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? |
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Forum Posts: 84 | Comment #71 by tincann Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 11:17:26 AM | |
| This recent situation will only bite Microsoft on the butt, as they will lose a lot of the small developers to Sony & PC's, which, in turn will hurt gamers that don't have multiple systems not being able to play some fabulous games. Great Job Microsoft, alienate even more Gamers & Developers with your greed. |
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Forum Posts: 3 | Comment #72 by Espi Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 11:24:44 AM | |
You guys are delusional. Games weren't "bug" free. Only difference is now patching on consoles is possible so people cry about every little thing and hope to get it patched.
Then you also have clowns like this guy who just release a broken product and figure "eh, fuck it. fix it later" |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #73 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 11:32:41 AM | |
| @67 That's not how business works. See my comment @37 where I broke down the costs. You don't make $30,000 out of 3,000 $10 sales. |
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Forum Posts: 256 | Comment #74 by neo consumer Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 11:36:20 AM | |
| I hope they go bust. |
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Forum Posts: 914 | Comment #75 by i fist brown i Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 12:06:54 PM | |
@72, where did you get the 70/30 split info from??? (not saying it is wrong, just wondering)
When Gotham City Imposters came out (arcade game on XBL/PSN) monolith had said it cost them $10,000 dollars to release a patch on XBL and they were going to wait and make a massive patch, to get their money worth and address multiple issues (took like 3 months). So my question is, why does it cost $40,000 now for FEZ developers?
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Forum Posts: 0 | Comment #76 by Gonin Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 12:22:24 PM | |
| The guy's a cunt. It's his fault the game didn't release in full working order for EVERYBODY THAT PAID FOR IT. Fish is a mong and he will get no more money from me which I bet will really annoy him. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #77 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 12:39:44 PM | |
@75 Here's an article from a dev but it looks like it's possibly changed to be less or at least varied between developers.
http://www.jakeworld.org/JakeWorld/main.php?main=blog/BlogDisplay.php&file=200802_February_2008.xml&key=23/02/2008%2012:54:28%20PM&#AnchorHere
The $40,000 figure comes from Fish and Doublefine.
Here in the interview:
http://www.giantbomb.com/news/the-rabbit-hole-that-is-life-after-fez/4275/
And the link to the Tim Schafer interview:
http://www.hookshotinc.com/interview-schafers-millions/
It's possible that this is also varied but Gotham City Imposters is also on the PC with GFWL so that could be the reason. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #78 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 12:41:22 PM | |
| Oops, didn't mean to mess the text on the page up : |
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Forum Posts: 584 | Comment #79 by GR4V1G0R3 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 01:09:50 PM | |
while i agree that it can be almost impossible to perfectly play test a game (standing on every square inch of land wearing every possible item weapon, and doing every possible action over all areas of a map are nigh on impossible, there are some games (mostly by bethesda) that should never have been released until the problems with the engine were removed, that engine was so badly bugged nobody knew what glitches were going to show, if any at all
there are 2 ways to fix it, stop rushing & forcing release windows (publishers) OR put up with glitchy games & constant abuse about them (players & devs)
i know which is most likely....
as for the hate of MS, yeah probably justified, but it could've been a really good idea, if games publishers were not so retarded with release dates trying to compete for market share against goliath franchises.....an extra month or 2 would give more time to stabilise the enviroment, tools, and also then to test the damn thing better, and ... maybe, fix the "features" of the game |
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Forum Posts: 226 | Comment #80 by JT Fever Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 01:13:48 PM | |
As #51 has stated that 1st patch is free (no-one has stated otherwise), then so far its cost him nothing to fix this game, yet he has made some money #37 states 1000000 sales......thus far. Here is my point polytron, i played the demo, and enjoyed it, even spoke to friends about it. Now will i buy it after this....NO. The glitch may not even happen in my game but knowing a developer WONT fix it.....
Feel for the 1% (3000est) customers who FISH is aknowledging, guess he owes you refunds
peace |
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Forum Posts: 30 | Comment #81 by Man On The Run Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 01:14:48 PM | |
Hang on, Shaeffer (sp) said it cost $80,000 didnt and this dude says $40,000 and up there a poster comments that it was $10,000? I dont know if we will ever get the truth about how much it costs but im sure Konami released 2 patches for frogger and your going to tell me they paid $160,000 to $80,000 to patch a near 30 year old game that cost £3?
If the first patch is free then just half those figures but even then its ridiculous. I think there is some BS going on. |
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Forum Posts: 297 | Comment #82 by SetoChaos Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 01:27:08 PM | |
| @81 Well it seems stupid in itself to have one figure for all patches. The one I've heard the most is the $40,000 one. It probably is a variable price but still ridiculously expensive. |
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Forum Posts: 463 | Comment #83 by francisrossi Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 01:46:33 PM | |
| @70 - Most definitely agreeing. |
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Forum Posts: 228 | Comment #84 by the action frampton Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 02:02:21 PM | |
| @40 hey Aaron, it was @37 that said it sold 100k copies not me lol. I would have expected it to sell more, and I can only guess it would have done if it wasn't broken. |
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Forum Posts: 7 | Comment #85 by RancidSkank Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 02:29:04 PM | |
@53 There's nothing wrong with pictures of cats!
I agree with the majority here, there should be some incentive not to release a broken game. People pay top whack for games at launch and often get screwed over and have to bench games until they are patched. |
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Forum Posts: 44 | Comment #86 by Agent Mantis Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 03:01:37 PM | |
| This coming from the same whinger who moaned that fez wasn't as popular as minecraft |
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Forum Posts: 4942 | Comment #87 by iBuzz7S Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 05:45:22 PM | |
For those of you who have the game and want your money back, call Microsoft and demand it. The game is broken? Tell them it's unplayable and you want a refund of some sort.
They will credit your account with the full amount or at least half of the cost.
;) |
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Forum Posts: 12 | Comment #88 by griefrapids Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:11:37 PM | |
| I'm not saying Microsoft isn't money hungry, Bill Gates didn't get rich by signing cheques, but I'm sure Polytron (or would hope) knew what the cost of doing business is or else why be Xbox exclusive, and then bitch about it. There is a reason they are not on Steam, don't know what it is, but it was a business decision maybe a poor one hopefully they learned there lesson. Never play Fez but it got good reviews, hopefully they'll continue to make quality games and don't bitch and blame someone else for your products shortcomings. |
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Forum Posts: 55 | Comment #89 by Furious M1 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:32:37 PM | |
| @2 Totally agree. It's not like this game is BF3 or some other AAA release. Polytron knew full well what it was going to take to get their game certified by Microsoft. I played the demo and was not impressed so this just reaffirms my position of not buying it. |
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Forum Posts: 122 | Comment #90 by SpKXmasSpirit Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:51:50 PM | |
No sympathy from me, they knew the rules of the game coming in. If I were a lead on a small development team, my product would be so polished and clean by the time it was certified that you could eat off of the code, if that were possible. Your first foray into games, your big 'hey gaming world, here we are, this is our baby' should be picked over with the finest of combs before release, and it seems that they didn't do it.
The lead's antics before release made me hold off on buying it, and now this has reaffirmed my choice to not buy Fez or any subsequent game from this company. |
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Forum Posts: 122 | Comment #91 by SpKXmasSpirit Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 06:56:10 PM | |
Though in retrospect I do feel for all upstart developers who strive to produce something that everyone loves rather than just make some money, such as Ronimo Games, who released Awesomenauts. Those guys have the best community support and back and forth with their fanbase that I have ever seen.
It seems that the patch they are about to release (not to fix game-breaking ship issues, the game runs perfectly as is) will cost them a lot of money, but they are rebalancing the whole game based on feedback from their customers and releasing new characters as well, for free. That's the business model that creates loyalty, and I respect them for that and will follow their future titles even if they may not appeal to me at first glance. |
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Forum Posts: 185 | Comment #92 by Kaskade Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 07:39:41 PM | |
| Does not affect me since I didnt buy the game |
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Forum Posts: 28 | Comment #93 by DORGINATOR Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:03:37 PM | |
| Microsoft is strangling the industry for a buck . |
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Forum Posts: 26 | Comment #94 by LovableCrazee Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:49:13 PM | |
| Or maybe they could have just finished the game before releasing it? Microsoft is completely right, they SHOULD charge tons of money for patches because it forces game designers to make games that don't have bugs. I have NO sympathy for these designers, they rushed out a buggy game with a buggy patch and now they're acting like the victims. |
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Forum Posts: 578 | Comment #95 by Hurricane Of 87 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 08:52:33 PM | |
LOL if you think games were bug-free 'back in the day'. If the internet was around back then I'm sure you'd have heard more about them.
Also I haven't played FEZ since day 1 when I put about 6-7 hours into it and got everything I could without using a guide (32 cubes, 9 anti-cubes). Good enough. No desire to go back. Saves aren't too much of an issue with a title of this size.
Phil Fish is a fantastic character that the gaming community needs more of instead of another identik tool shilling the latest sequel as 'darker, more intense, mature' and whatever buzzwords corporations believe resonant with the general public. Guy gets to the point even if it makes me want to slap him. |
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Forum Posts: 5 | Comment #96 by HVAC Techie Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 09:28:22 PM | |
| The guy does bitch a lot, but you can't blame him for being a little annoyed at this. It is a stupid policy. But that's why Indie devs should be more computer based before they move onto consoles. |
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Forum Posts: 1329 | Comment #97 by FFFreak1129 Thursday, July 19, 2012 @ 09:58:35 PM | |
| Thanks for letting me know. I won't waste my money on it now. |
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Forum Posts: 96 | Comment #98 by TSG Dwaggie Friday, July 20, 2012 @ 01:14:13 AM | |
I may be uneducated and such, but can someone explain to me how it costs microsoft $40,000 to issue a patch?
Polyfine will be doing the work, not microsoft. All microsoft has to do is upload the patch to their servers, then it'll automatically get updated to players.
Ok, Microsoft, lets look at it your way.
ou have your windows 7 updates. I'm gonna charge you $40,000 every time you update my windows, for the privilege of having it on my computer.
Doesn't work when it's on the other foot, does it, Microsoft? |
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Forum Posts: 270 | Comment #99 by davhuit Friday, July 20, 2012 @ 06:10:38 AM | |
It's probably also to prevent developpers to release games with lots of bugs.
Before games could be patched (8-16 bits, even PS1/Saturn/N64 era, or even PS2), I never saw a game with a bug that would prevent you to finish the game (Deathspank 2) or a game that would erase your saves.
And most actual games are done the same way, most of them just have updated graphics, so there is no real reason to have more bugs, especially with a "little" indy game.
Therefore, it's a well known fact that Microsoft charge a lot of money to patch games, so if players are aware of this fact, I can't imagine a developer don't know that.
@98 : I don't think so. He's saying Microsoft have to re-certify the game, so they probably check and test the patch before releasing it. That's why he said Microsoft looked at the actual patch and said it's a minor problem.
And as someone said, the first patch is free (which seems correction as he didn't complained about the cost of the first one). And one could understand Microsoft don't want to see a developper patching his game 3 times per week.
They should have more polished their game, then their first patch. |
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Forum Posts: 32 | Comment #100 by Achilles8249 Wednesday, July 25, 2012 @ 08:46:05 AM | |
| I think the whole idea of charging the developers money to issue a patch has its reasons, its telling them to get the game pretty bug free or theyre gonna be charged for not taking the time to get it right in the first place. which i can agree on, I dont want it to be like the pc with some of the buggiest games ever. |
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Forum Posts: 6 | Comment #101 by krclark Tuesday, December 25, 2012 @ 09:40:59 PM | |
Well, I just picked up this game during the year end countdown sale, and already had it lock up my system twice due to bug/glitch.
Now, while I can understand the "all games have bugs" line, as well as the "games had bugs in the past too" line, I still find this unacceptable for this game.
Why? Well, there are a few simple reasons:
Most of the time these quotes are for games that span multiple platforms, and/or run on PCs.
Supporting multiple game box platforms (XBOX, PS, etc) gives you hardware variables which can compound the bugs in your code.
When supporting PCs the number of hardware configurations possible is near impossible to count, much lest test for.
This game is an XBOX 360 exclusive title. That means it has one specific platform. At the absolute worst you could have some minor variations between generations of the hardware. This is not an overwhelming testing situation.
And my favorite bit..."which for all we know could introduce new issues, for which we’d need yet another costly patch". Come on, really?
This game takes, what, 8 to 12 hours to complete? There are no variables for inventory items and usage scenarios. No AI issues of any sort to deal with. No health/spell power/ammo/whatever tracking. Small/limited playable areas. minimal world/sprite/whatever interaction. Minimal controls/functionality.
I really do not see how this game, specifically, could be so hard to test properly.
Now, don't get me wrong here. I like the game, and think that it is very well done from both a puzzle solving and artistic perspective. I just can't accept the statements made concerning their ability to test and/or patch it. |
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Forum Posts: 0 | Comment #102 by themastertrevor Tuesday, March 26, 2013 @ 12:21:13 AM | |
@13
I think you said it best, there ARE always two sides. You make an excellent point. |
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