|Look Ma, No Controller!||5|
|Use Kinect to drive any car in Free Play.|
You DO need the Kinect for this achievement, luckily enough my sisterhad a Kinect... if you are not as fortunate you may have to bring your gamertag and save with you to a friend's house and use their Kinect, or just buy one for the achievement... which is a bit like overkill if you ask us. For the achievement, simply use Kinect to steer the car in Free Play... then never use it with the game again.
|Rate this achievement||Average Rating (Based on 68 votes)|
|Comment #1 by Mullet2000|
Friday, August 26, 2011 @ 10:28:35 PM
Uhoh, I foresee much rage over this one...
|Comment #2 by Sir Goatfather|
Friday, August 26, 2011 @ 10:35:05 PM
I ... I might pay $150 for 5G ...
|Comment #3 by JCA1567|
Friday, August 26, 2011 @ 10:39:41 PM
how stupid. I have kinect, but really? really?
|Comment #4 by rustyferg|
Friday, August 26, 2011 @ 11:16:07 PM
Look Ma, bringing this to my friend's house to use his kinect.
|Comment #5 by Spun77xLucky Stricke|
Friday, August 26, 2011 @ 11:39:08 PM
FUCK NOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 995g nooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|Comment #6 by LoversandBrothers|
Friday, August 26, 2011 @ 11:48:46 PM
Look Ma, I am not getting the full 50/50!
|Comment #7 by hydrosugar|
Friday, August 26, 2011 @ 11:59:04 PM
what did you expect? M$ published the game. if they think they can make people buy kinect they will
|Comment #8 by SuperSkyline89|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 12:07:14 AM
Fucking money grubbing motherfuckers
|Comment #9 by CyberPunch83|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 12:11:34 AM
One damn achievement... one damn achievement! Guess I'm gonna borrow a friend's Kinect sensor. I'm not paying $150 for one 5G achievement. I've had to pay for achievements before, but never like this. And I won't start now.
|Comment #10 by jaysfan14|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 12:30:39 AM
I was planning on getting a kinect anyway, but now I think I might not
just because of this. My suite mate has one though :)
|Comment #11 by yakuzzaa|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 12:34:28 AM
Look Ma, bringing this to Gamestop and use their kinect.
|Comment #12 by Suki|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 12:54:46 AM
well this has made turn 10 go down in my estimations of them the money grabbing fools, real driving my arse i have to unplug my wheel and use a pretend wheel to 1000 this game utter bullshit.
|Comment #13 by MILINKYO|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 02:42:02 AM
Even though I have kinetc this achievement us terrible
|Comment #14 by thoseAREmySHOES|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 02:52:18 AM
Time to borrow the roommate's Kinect!
|Comment #15 by danc578|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 04:15:57 AM
reallyyy......... i fought they werent meant to have achievements to have to buy extra things for. ive heard of 8£ for a achievements but 120£ is a bit steep to be fair ill be happy with 995.
|Comment #16 by Space Cadet|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 04:41:36 AM
They could have at least made it 0 gamerscore, sheesh..
|Comment #17 by WithTheDawn|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 05:00:23 AM
@15 ever played Burnout Paradise? Had to have the vision camera to get them all on that one...
|Comment #18 by the action frampton|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 05:00:35 AM
@15 it's got Kinect written on the front of the bloody box; of course they are allowed to have Kinect only achievements in the game.
I lol at all rage about this one
|Comment #19 by pr1me|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 05:04:45 AM
Worst achievement EVER! Probably ebay will help me out - or maybe somebody here wants to lend his Kinect? :P
|Comment #20 by DarnedCargo|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 05:42:58 AM
personally im quite happy with the 995g but if i really want to get that 5g i could always buy a pre-owned kinect device and i might aswell get a pre-owned copy of forza 4 just as an extra fuck you to M$ and turn10. Hell i don't want to lose money on someone else's stupid idea do i.
|Comment #21 by SpectreSoldier|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 05:49:31 AM
Can you rent a kinect? LOL!
|Comment #22 by three15|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 06:28:11 AM
This isn't allowed surely? M$ own rules state even game must have 1000G without having to pay extra and here we are with them trying to make people shell out £100 for a 5g achievement! I love racing games and Forza but i'm seriously considering NOT buying this if it's going to be an attempt to sell Kinect, I'm not 10 years old for fecks sake!
|Comment #23 by jonboy1977|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 06:35:40 AM
I have kinect, but this still really annoys me.
Reminds me of all those games that had achievements that needed the vision camera when it came out. really really annoying.
|Comment #24 by rulzmaker|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 06:56:30 AM
I can't believe they done something like that after all that nonsense about them giving a damn about the players.
|Comment #25 by xDnl94|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 07:55:29 AM
no 1000G for me
|Comment #26 by dj jeza|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 07:58:31 AM
this is bullshit, MS yet again trying to get peoplpe to buy kinect by putting in a bullshit achievement
|Comment #27 by stryke88|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 08:03:12 AM
thats so stupid kinect is the biggest load of rubbish to ever be sold the only reason i would ever buy one is to burn it i'll take a controller any day
|Comment #28 by Brandeniuz|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 08:20:06 AM
It's 5G, not like the world is going to end. If it bothers you that much just don't buy the game, or use a friend's Kinect.
|Comment #29 by Mcmax3000|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 08:22:26 AM
For everyone crying "This isn't allowed! They're not allowed to do achievements that require you to buy extra stuff!!"...
That only applies to DLC, not hardware. The standard 1000GS can't include any premium DLC.
As for the standard whining, get over it. The Kinect features are part of the game so it would be stupid of them not to have at least one achievement tied to them.
|Comment #30 by DaBenoit|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 08:38:25 AM
|Comment #31 by Guizon Maltrov|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 08:38:30 AM
Go to hell #29...
|Comment #32 by falldown3|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 08:43:54 AM
wow....... good job turn 10 you just decreased your profit by alot
|Comment #33 by the ferenczy|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 08:45:40 AM
Rainbow Six Vegas had a camera achievement, so this isn't the first time this has happened. Pretty lame regardless.
|Comment #34 by Conor x420a|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 08:55:58 AM
I might get this and 1000G it with my good old Kinect :)
|Comment #35 by ash356|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 09:02:33 AM
I'm sure this will annoy many a person, like the old Fable 2 'You have to have pub games to get the achievement' scandal back in the day.
I agree though. Forza's one of MS's pivotal core games, being the Xbox's Gran Turismo. It should stay core. The best experience for a racing game is a racing wheel, not waving your arms around at a little camera.
|Comment #36 by Masklin|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 09:12:49 AM
Damn it, need a new local friend with a kinect :)
|Comment #37 by PurinaZebraChow|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 09:21:12 AM
I hear that M$ is forcing kinect into games they publish, so I'm pretty sure it's not turn 10's fault. That being said, fuck M$ and their kinect.
|Comment #38 by iNT3NTiiONz|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 09:44:19 AM
This one acheivement just had to kill the list. oh well, I still want the limited edition as a fan of the series.
|Comment #39 by KrisXX|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 09:52:09 AM
hahah...man, lots of crybabies over a video game! I love achievements too, but who cares.
|Comment #40 by Gogobinsin|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 10:30:09 AM
Nobody mentioned the Kinect steering wheel being released for this game.
You don't need that as well as the Kinect for this achievement do you? That costs like £40+ alone... D:
|Comment #41 by alklein35|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 10:30:45 AM
@8 You're a dumbass, it's not money-grabbing it's called being a business. Why would you make a product then not try to sell it?
|Comment #42 by Fredy29|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 02:16:27 PM
What a joke.
|Comment #43 by SuddenFear666|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 02:19:44 PM
Is this achievement really about making money (selling Kinect units) or more about forcing us to at least try out the motion-controlled driving? I can imagine that a lot of time (and payroll dollars) was spent by the developers to get Kinect-functionality into the game. I own a Kinect and had no intentions of using it to drive in Forza 4. Now, with the inclusion of this achievement, I will use it. Mission accomplished, Turn 10/Microsoft.
|Comment #44 by MxPx|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 02:33:22 PM
lol @ all the haters.
NONE of you have friends who own a kinect?
|Comment #45 by Simlaurel|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 02:43:01 PM
@44 No, I don't have any 8 year old friends, or know any Soccer Moms, so I don't know know anyone with a Kinect
|Comment #46 by Harry Rasing|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 02:53:40 PM
Look Turn10, One less Forza 4 customer!
|Comment #47 by Aki2403|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 03:00:25 PM
I am going to have to see if any of my friends will lend me their kinect for this one, I have no intention of actually buying Kinect at any point in the near future.
I'm very almost in the same boat as #46 on this one.
|Comment #48 by Tadsh|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 03:07:59 PM
People are seriously not buying this game for the sake of 5 gamerscore. Wow.........
|Comment #49 by Cobalt Blue|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 03:26:48 PM
I knew that they would do that, I actually hoped for this. To bad it's only
worth 5G the ratios on this are gonna be high. :D
But sorry to you guys without Kinect.
|Comment #50 by DarthGalm|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 04:32:23 PM
lol, a friend of mine owns it. guess it's time for him to return a favor I did to him...
|Comment #51 by BrySkye|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 04:40:42 PM
Hardcore Forza fans are probably already looking at Kinect for the head tracking feature. One that holds a lot of appeal to steering wheel users, who do not have the luxury of a right analogue stick.
Its pretty much the sole reason why I bought a Kinect.
This isn't anything new though.
Has everyone forgot that Rainbow 6 Vegas, Vegas 2 and Raving Rabbids all had achievements that required the Xbox Live Vision Camera?
On the plus side, the game doesn't have any multiplayer achievements.
|Comment #52 by SzilardUK|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 06:04:30 PM
This just makes me very sad.
No buy. :(
|Comment #53 by PimpledMr Brown|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 06:13:01 PM
i hope there wont be any achievements like this in mass effect 3
|Comment #54 by Cinderkin|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 06:36:38 PM
I own a Kinect and it's not even plugged in. I probably still won't get this.
Maybe when I move to my new place I'll have room to actually use it.
|Comment #55 by Pixo|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 08:01:16 PM
Not paying $150 for 5G. 995/1000 for me.
|Comment #56 by alklein35|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 09:58:16 PM
@55 Glad to see SOMEONE is just accepting that they won't get this, instead of whining and saying they won't buy the game because of it (even though they most likely will).
I own a Kinect, and I was thinking this game would be like Mass Effect 3, just adding a couple extra features that don't really add to the game. Driving with Kinect may be fun since this is meant to be a real game compared to sonic, joy ride, etc.
|Comment #57 by ShortyWND|
Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 10:56:00 PM
Stop whining, it's just as simple as going to a friend's house who has Kinect, lucky me that I already buy it..hahah
|Comment #58 by JuSt BLaZe|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 12:23:42 AM
@53: I already started praying haha! This is really crap.
|Comment #59 by Cooljoe|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 12:24:15 AM
Cmon u guys u guys have to have SOME contacts for this achievement. Once u start driving it'll unlock lol. Kinect is fun it's not just for soccer moms and little kids. They have ufc, fitness games, and that new gun stringer soon to be released. But I do agree freaking weird for this game dudes!
|Comment #60 by Licenze2killu|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 01:44:40 AM
How about goin to gamestop and just rent a kinect, there a 7 day return poicy, suhh they will never kno it was used for a achievement!!! ;p
|Comment #61 by SzilardUK|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 02:10:47 AM
@56, 57 and others:
Stop whining about people who are so disappointed and disgusted about M$ aggressive marketing strategy that they decided not to buy the game. Forza 4 is a game which DOES NOT NEED Kinect support. You know what? Why did they not make it really an achievement. Like win a season with Kinect playing on the hardest difficulty. What would you say then? This achievement is as easy as switching the lights on. Only you need a stupid £100 controller which wasn't as successful as they thought it would be. Whining... my ass.
|Comment #62 by MiNDmaZing|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 02:15:53 AM
stupid achievement, this is the begin of a new marketing area, kincet achievs in nonkinect games great !
|Comment #63 by verybadloser|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 02:53:38 AM
Microsoft are arseholes
|Comment #64 by DragonusDarque|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 03:55:57 AM
Well, as I said before, guess I am gonna save myself $60 this year, cuz I am not paying $100 dollars more for something that will gather dust and only get used maybe twice a year.
The fact that not having Kinect is going to stop me from getting full GS means it is gonna stop me from getting the game.
Oh, and for those who played Forza 3, the list is pretty much the same. The kinect achievement replaced the "Interior" achievement (cockpit view).
And, @60, Gamestop doesn't do the guarantee on systems or peripherals (at least, the one I go to doesn't).
|Comment #65 by trent82|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 06:11:58 AM
I expect a lot of Microsoft games to have tacked on Kinect achievements going forward. The thing that is frustrating about this is that it isn't just about the money...for a lot of people, you just don't have the right setup to use Kinect. In my gaming area, when I briefly borrowed a Kinect, I simply could not back up far enough for it to see my legs and feet.
|Comment #66 by ThrustfulSteve|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 07:04:39 AM
Not getting this game anymore...dont like being pressure into wasting money on some childlike shit that adds nothing to the game. If mass effect 3 goes down a similar route i might just cry and sell my xbox
|Comment #67 by grich213|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 07:29:33 AM
am i the only one thats excited to driving with my kinect or walk around the car and open the doors hood and trunk in auto vista mode? i mean damn im 22 and this shit seems fun
|Comment #68 by Mcmax3000|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 09:43:00 AM
For anyone that is whining, if you want to be even remotely taken seriously, stop trying to claim that Kinect sales are poor. They sold over 10 Million sensors in like two months.
Kinect sales have been pretty damn strong.
Forza has always put in achievements that are tied to new features so that people try them out. That's all this is. The amount of Kinect units that they will sell because of this achievement is probably a two digit number at best. Microsoft wouldn't waste their time forcing Turn 10 to put this in.
|Comment #69 by alklein35|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 09:58:01 AM
@61 Didn't do as well as they expected? You do know it holds the record for fastest selling consumer electronic of all time right? It's continued to do amazing. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't do well, or is only for little kids, it does well and people need to realize that. Pretending it's a bad product doesn't make it one. Like 68 said, part of this achievement is just to get people to try out the new feature.
@66 How are you being pressured? Because of a number? That's not being pressured, that's your own retarded ego that demands a perfect number, and if you claim it's anything other than you wanting to get every achievement, that's a bunch of BS. And you probably will still get this anyways, just like the majority of people who say they won't because of the K
|Comment #70 by Hairy Cabbage|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 11:50:49 AM
looks like i have (or should i say they have) just saved myself/me £40.
|Comment #71 by Bleeding Star|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 11:56:16 AM
I have Kinect so its all ok
|Comment #72 by Derm|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 12:13:18 PM
I was on the fence with Forza anyway but its a definite no now..
|Comment #73 by litepink|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 01:05:51 PM
#50- Gross, what favor?
I think the only people that have the right to whine are:
-People who have given Kinect a fair shot and don't like it (I love Kinect, but not everyone has too), AND they would actually get 995gs on the game, and Kinect is blocking them from getting the full 1000. Everyone is whining and moaning about a 5gs achievement, but be honest with yourselves, were you going to get 995 in this game? I bet some of you never played 2 or 3 even...
|Comment #74 by xxdeadp0larisxx|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 01:43:12 PM
You can rent A KINECT AT RENT A CENTER FOR LIKE $8.00 bucks a day
|Comment #75 by SzilardUK|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 03:18:41 PM
@68 and 69: Fair enough. Then you also know that there are more than 50 million Xbox consoles all over the world. That means that in best case scenario, there are a Kinect on every fifth. M$ being the greediest company ever (not official Guiness record or anything, just a fact) want a Kinect or two on all of them...
I still hate being pushed by M$ marketing strategy and I am not buying this game. I might be a drop in the ocean but if it carries on like this, I will just sell my Xbox too. And yes, I know yoou wouldn't miss me, I wouldn't miss you too. Fullstop.
|Comment #76 by alklein35|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 03:56:37 PM
@75 My question is, why does this one achievement affect your purchase of the game, and why would it put you any closer to selling the system? Of course they want a Kinect on every system, they make money off it. Every company in the world would like to have their product in every house, if they don't, they're too stupid to run a business. If the game itself was to be a great game, why wouldn't you buy it because of that? Instead of going off a number, play it based on whether you enjoy the game.
I agree with 73 for the most part, the only people who have a good reason to complain are the ones who have used the Kinect and didn't like it. But even they don't really have a reason to complain about an achievement and not buy the game. Is Microsoft forcing you in any way shape or form to us
|Comment #77 by alklein35|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 03:57:42 PM
to use the Kinect and get this achievement? No they're not, regardless of how you think. Do you get anything from gamerscore that is necessary for something? Hell, do you get anything from gamerscore at all? No, so they aren't forcing you to get this achievement at all. Instead of bitching, you should just sell your 360 right now, don't switch to a PS3, and only play video games that have no type of achievements, trophies, or cumulative score whatsoever because maybe then you'll realize the actual purpose of games.
|Comment #78 by Mongolian Beef|
Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 09:36:38 PM
|Comment #79 by trent82|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 03:22:04 AM
To those trying to be optimistic about this, how many of you have played Joy Ride using a Kinect? I have and it was truly awful. There is nothing in place to keep your hands in the right position, so they will drift together and apart because your focus is on the screen. This causes all sorts of problems. I'm not sure if you can use an empty Wii Wheel to keep you hands in place, but that might be your best bet. I have no doubt that Forza 4 will be a better game than Joy Ride, but I can see the same Kinect-related problems occuring.
The real frustration with an achievement like this is that the only time you will likely try to use Kinect with this game will be to knock out this achievement. While doing so, you will realize how stupid it is, and you will never do it again. I predic
|Comment #80 by dicky1993|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 04:09:41 AM
ooh waa waa waa our gamerscores going to be messed up waa!
i'm guessing you have other games you haven't completed 1000/1000? waaaaaaaa
i'm not buying it cos i'll get 955g waaaaaaaaaaa
you guys are babies! i'm buying it, looks fun
|Comment #81 by LolWivTim|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 07:50:04 AM
I guess Ill have to borrow someones Kinect for this. Or just leave it and be happy with about 995G
|Comment #82 by pined5551|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 08:20:46 AM
I understand the reasons for putting the achievement in, but since I do not own Kinect and have no intention of buying it in the future, I remain bias, and shall proclaim those involved in putting this achievement in are in fact, bellends!
I shall still buy the game, as its one I want, and will be great regardless of one annoying achievement, especially with my racing wheel.
|Comment #83 by Siddy|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 11:02:03 AM
@73 you hit it on the head. How many here are going to be playing this game long enought to even get to 995G when your got achievements like "Bucket List." Thats hours of racing, at least over 80+ hours because of the endurance races and cars that might be to hard to handle.
"Unicorn Hunter" is another pain because a Unicorn cars can go in to the billions just to buy one. Unless you find a money glitch or your good artist that will take a lot of time as well.
So I find it hard to beleave the ones that are not buying this because of not being able to get 5G are going to put the time in to get the other 995G.
|Comment #84 by FatalFlaw810|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 01:58:09 PM
Some people cry way too much..I realize this is an achievement site but come on. It's only ONE achievement for 5G and as everyone else said the people who are whining probably won't get 995 because this game will require a lot of playtime. I know it took forever to 1000g Forza 3. The fact is I'm still getting this game because I know I'm going to enjoy it and I know it will be fun for any racing/car enthusiast fan. I hate when people think they're forced into buying Kinect just because of one silly achievement.
|Comment #85 by Trolls88|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 02:39:06 PM
i knew this would be in here lol. looks like im not getting forza 4 then. yes i care about getting all achievements so what
|Comment #86 by xXSooperdaveXx|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 03:48:46 PM
Now look here ma, fuck a kinect
|Comment #87 by xXSooperdaveXx|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 03:49:51 PM
so you wont buy any game that you cant fully acheive?
|Comment #88 by LiL K1996|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 04:05:35 PM
Loved the kinect and will probably try this my first time :)
|Comment #89 by Pirateogta|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 05:57:16 PM
Caring about getting all the achievements is one thing, but not buying a game simply because you won't be able to get all the achievements is stupid as hell. That means that you were only buying the game for the achievements to begin with and not for the actual game, or you are a Forza fan but won't buy the game simply because of one achievement. Both are absolutely pathetic.
|Comment #90 by JoeMorrissy|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 06:12:02 PM
Free ms points - http://www.mspointscodes.com/?i=626256
|Comment #91 by Swonely|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 07:13:33 PM
Still Gonna buy the game,but for this I might rent a Kinect to get it.
Would anyone sign a petition if I made one for the to disable this
achievement and place a different one?
|Comment #92 by DragonusDarque|
Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 07:18:11 PM
I know I would get the other 995g (I almost have Forza 3 cleared - only missing 2), but I am medically unable to use Kinect, being unable to stand long enough to play a game. I know you are sitting for Forza 4, but I am not gonna pay $100 for something I can only use on a few things. Most of the Kinect games require you to stand to play, which I cannot do, so I would never be able to play 95% of the games out there for Kinecrt.
Microsoft seems to think all gamers are in perfect health and able to physically do anything, which I can assure you is not true.
If I could try Kinect, I would. And, it's not the only reason I am skipping Forza 4, but if I ever do play it, it will probably just be a weekend, just for the experience.
|Comment #93 by OctagonQontrol|
Tuesday, August 30, 2011 @ 06:42:20 AM
Please check your local/national rules on internet-shopping and return-policy ;)'
Don't think you need more info than that to find the "flaw" in buying/using Kinect for this alleged achievement...
|Comment #94 by alklein35|
Tuesday, August 30, 2011 @ 01:58:12 PM
@92 I'm confused. I get that you're medically unable to use Kinect, but how does that mean that it makes sense to bitch about needing it to get 5g? It's still stupid, no matter what your reason is. The fact is you're whining about 5 points in something that have no real world value. You may like score - yes, you may like completion percentages - yes, but I think even the most diehard GS whores would say that GS isn't actually important in real life, so why is it such a big deal about 1 achievement? Or any for that matter
|Comment #95 by OctagonQontrol|
Tuesday, August 30, 2011 @ 02:30:47 PM
@92: pretty sure bet that driving a car with Kinect can be done with some mild gestures from the hands and maybe "some" movement from your feet, while sitting, to make up for throttle & brakes. Even so, if you're really that unable to move around (which makes for a very good point of Microsoft thinking all gamers are 100% physically able), it would'nt be too hard to ask a friend or family-member to drive the car for you?
@94: "It's still stupid, no matter what your reason is". Great to read your ignorance; makes me wonder what you would do if you would be physically unable to do certain things on an activity you really like to do, regardless if it's playing a game, playing basketball or having sex. Maybe think about things you love to do but would be unable to in the near future... :s 9
|Comment #96 by Speed Hunter PT|
Tuesday, August 30, 2011 @ 02:33:43 PM
Well, I AM going to buy Kinect so... Whatever... I'm more worried about the unicorn achievement
|Comment #97 by bozie69|
Tuesday, August 30, 2011 @ 07:32:50 PM
i dont have kincet and not one of my friends where i live have it so i got to buy this achivo or let a friend on xbox live (someone i never meet)recover my tag and do it for me ? think its 5 g i wont be getting shame
|Comment #98 by Guizon Maltrov|
Tuesday, August 30, 2011 @ 07:55:42 PM
For all of you saying "quit your whining" , "stop complainin faggets"...
You WILL start complain once they make a game that youre only gonna be able to play,complete and gain achievements once you have "A GIANT ROBOT WITH A STEERING WHEEL, A LASER PISTOL HAND AND A HEAD WITH CAMERAS IN HIS EYES FOR THE BARGAIN PRICE OF 2,000 $"
Once they made a game for DLC or Online play only...
Fight now or shut up forever...
|Comment #99 by alklein35|
Tuesday, August 30, 2011 @ 08:02:04 PM
@98 No, because I realize that as much as like gamerscore and achievements, they have no real value and the fact that I can't get them doesn't bother me. I don't care that I only partially completed 1 vs 100, don't care that I can't 100% my Warlords. I don't buy games for achievements, I buy to play the damn game, something that noone seems to do anymore. If they made a game that I flatout couldn't play at all for medical reasons, yea I'd be pissed, but unless it was a common illness (like not being able to use Kinect, I would call that common) I wouldn't hold it against the devs. Noones being prevented from playing this game by them adding the achievement, they just can't get 5g. Whoopdie-motherfucking-doo.
On a semi-related note. If I could get a giant robot with a steering wheel, las
|Comment #100 by kops23|
Tuesday, August 30, 2011 @ 09:59:03 PM
I think some people should just buy the game for the game itself.
Not buying it to look cool by having 1000G on it. Why moan about
a stupid 5G achievement when most people probably didn't get
the 'Drift Lap' achievement on Forza 3. Also how many people will
be dedicated to do 10 years in Season play or have enough money
to own the 5 most expensive cars in the game? I doubt most will get
1000/1000 even without Kinect. So just shut up and play it for fun :)
|Comment #101 by hughroad|
Wednesday, August 31, 2011 @ 06:04:34 AM
this achievement is lame.
|Comment #102 by alklein35|
Wednesday, August 31, 2011 @ 09:32:49 AM
|Comment #103 by AnimeLiam|
Wednesday, August 31, 2011 @ 12:00:10 PM
All I can say is that I'm glad this is only worth 5G...
|Comment #104 by pined5551|
Thursday, September 01, 2011 @ 10:08:54 AM
@ 103 - I think I would be less annoyed if it was a 100G achievement. 5 is just so close to finished that its even more frustrating. At least they were kind enough not to make it an odd number like 1G. Can keep the 5/0 finish number.... I know, i one of 'those' people, but I had a GS total that doesnt end in a 5 or 0. LOL! :S
|Comment #105 by jordandavila88|
Thursday, September 01, 2011 @ 02:56:01 PM
It is just like Burn out Paradise. have all but four achievements, but to get three of them I need an xbox vision camera. Luckily I do have a kenect. the achievement that I am most worried about is the Unicorn hunter achievement.
|Comment #106 by xV EXPERT Vx|
Friday, September 02, 2011 @ 09:35:42 AM
|Comment #107 by FOXHOUND MGS4|
Friday, September 02, 2011 @ 11:49:44 AM
OMG an achievement has RUINED Forza! What are we gonna do? FFS, doesnt anybody play a game because they actually like it, regardless of the achievements? Ive always said that achievements ruined gaming and here's a classic example. STOP WHINGING AND ENJOY THE GAME WHEN IT COMES OUT!!! I know i will and thats without the kinect! *Gets ready for the backlash* LOL
|Comment #108 by ash356|
Friday, September 02, 2011 @ 06:34:53 PM
URE STUPEDDD. DIS AS RUINED DA GAEM! U FOAL! Y r u beeing so niave?
Lol jking, you share the same view point as me :')
I've had a complete u-turn on this as a matter of fact... Turn 10 spent time developing the engine, it's only right they would want people to try it. How would you feel if you were one of the devs and the feature you created was pretty much ignored.
Achievements are there to extend the gameplay, and entice you into trying new things. 5G isn't going to end the world, or cause a debate in the house of parliament.
|Comment #109 by zombified|
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 11:28:08 AM
o my daaaaaaaayyyyyys.Those people who say they are going to buy kinect for a 5G cheevo ,wwell if i were you,i would kill myself. Coz who the hell made you into gamerscore
addict.Well i'm lucky im not drugged by the gamerscore addiction
|Comment #110 by AK47 MARKSMAN x|
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 04:30:34 PM
looks like i am not getting the full 1000 unless i could borrow a mates kinect t #109 your on a achivement website are you being serious
|Comment #111 by Nic1985|
Friday, September 09, 2011 @ 05:39:51 AM
i will do a deal with anyone here who has no kinect - u win 5g 100,000 drift on Forza 3 and i will play my kinect for your cheevo? lol any takers?
|Comment #112 by ShedManDan|
Friday, September 09, 2011 @ 05:14:43 PM
5G Fucking Get Over It
|Comment #113 by mgorsi|
Saturday, September 10, 2011 @ 11:00:07 PM
Look Ma, Am a buy Kinect, get this 5g, and return it tomorrow!!
|Comment #114 by x1979DarkKnight|
Saturday, September 17, 2011 @ 10:33:02 AM
I will just borrow my brothers Kinect for this achievement.
|Comment #115 by Cupra777|
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 @ 12:20:59 PM
Will try do something just to get the 5G.
|Comment #116 by TonySki|
Thursday, September 22, 2011 @ 09:54:29 AM
wow. I've never seen so many bitches in one place. it's ONLY 5 points. nothing to get your panties in a bunch over.
|Comment #117 by Number 15567|
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 @ 05:59:56 AM
doesnt matter if its 5G, 0G or 100G. no way im gonna pay them for this, so ... i canceled my preorder today. come straight or go home.
|Comment #118 by ViNyLek|
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 @ 01:46:31 PM
So much rage over one cheevo with 5GS. PPL on this website make me giggle:-)
|Comment #119 by AA x driv3r|
Thursday, September 29, 2011 @ 09:20:02 AM
The Guitar hero/Rock Band games require a separate Guitar controller, drum kit, and microphone to get the 1k. No one Bitches about that, yet when turn 10 made this acheviment, everyone started complaining. I will still get this regardless.
|Comment #120 by PsychoMama420|
Sunday, October 02, 2011 @ 01:12:56 AM
Hey people just throw a ? out on this Public Forum like this:
I live in St Paul, Minnesota, does anyone else live near here happen to own a Kinect that I could borrow for a few hours so that I can get this BS achievement? I'm willing to meet you somewhere public & give ya a few bucks to use it & meet you back there a short time later.
It it so hard to ask people for help?? I don't care if I get negative responses but hell I at least tried. LOL
Have a great day everyone & remember to SMILE. Life goes on if you can't get a 1000/1000 on a game. Hell I have 2 games I have completely done & I'm proud of it!
|Comment #121 by BearzUnlimited|
Sunday, October 02, 2011 @ 12:55:20 PM
It's funny how everyone is saying they be 995/1000 because of this achievement, yet chances are they will actually be 990 or 985/1000 because of Unicorn Hunter.
|Comment #122 by HunkTown101|
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 09:32:07 AM
I might buy a kinect and return it after the achievement.
|Comment #123 by alklein35|
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 09:20:26 AM
@122 It's gonna be hard finding a shop selling used ones, and you'll have a really hard time getting a store to give you a refund for an opened new item.
|Comment #124 by Cheevohunter|
Friday, October 07, 2011 @ 01:57:11 PM
Hahaha fun to watch people rage on this. Happy I have kinect though, or I would be pissed too
|Comment #125 by RockyMoney|
Friday, October 07, 2011 @ 06:21:23 PM
Canceling a pre-order because you wouldn't be able to get 1000 gamerscore from a game game is beyond sad! Its just a number on a screen you fucking nerds...
|Comment #126 by dixonTudeep|
Saturday, October 08, 2011 @ 04:08:27 PM
All you people trying to make fun of whining people are ridiculous. I agree it's sorta stupid to not get a game because of 5G but it's also ridiculous to make an achievement that forces people to buy a $150 accessorie. After all this is a website for gaining achievements so yes people will be upset when they cannot get a full 1000G which is the reason most people are on here. Maybe all you people calling everyone babies should join other gaming sites that don't focus on achievements. I think it would be extremely frustrating to get 995G and know that you could have another 100% game but a simple useless achievement is holding you back. It's not like it's a hard achievement forcing you not to get the 1000G. It should have been a 0G achievement since most people thought the Kinect was only f
|Comment #127 by cerberus276|
Saturday, October 08, 2011 @ 05:35:28 PM
For all the people ranting about the vision camera
Yes you needed it but it was around £20 and not £120
plus not buying Forza because of kinect is showing that true gamers are
not 8 year old squeaky kids who think that jumping up and down on a log is fun
Microsoft need to understand that to make good games is to stick to the originals
|Comment #128 by Cinderquill|
Sunday, October 09, 2011 @ 08:18:53 AM
I don't see why everyone's so bothered about it. It's only one achievement, but everyone's making out like it's gonna ruin the whole game. The Unicorn Hunter seems a lot harder than this one, yet there's no where near the amount of people complaining. Not buying Forza because of Kinect just makes you seem kind of immature, I mean it's still gonna be a good game, they just added something extra for those people who got Kinect but found there weren't that many interesting games in it. Maybe they shouldn't have put this achievement in, but it's not really a reason to not buy a game.
|Comment #129 by Dastrados|
Sunday, October 09, 2011 @ 01:03:22 PM
|Comment #130 by ShadowStar83|
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 01:58:43 AM
So I'd only be able to get 995 unless I buy a Kinect or ask my cousin to borrow his...screw that!
|Comment #131 by bigsilentrob|
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 11:53:43 AM
Wow!! People really getting that mad about 5g? It could be worse. Could be like the Rock Band 3 achievements where you had to buy the keyboard, pro guitar and pro cymbal pakc or you're out about 250g on that game. There's a Kinect logo on the box. Did you really think they would've put at least 1 Kinect achievement in there?
|Comment #132 by taologos|
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 03:33:06 PM
Well $150 for an achievement is pretty pricey...
|Comment #133 by taologos|
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 03:41:03 PM
To everyone saying that whining about 5g gamerscore is stupid, you do realize that you're on an achievement forum, right?
|Comment #134 by Daniel55645|
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 07:25:07 PM
ive never seen such horrible kinect tracking on a game before. at least all you have to do is start up a race and the achievement unlocks. no more kinect for this game. HORRIBLE
|Comment #135 by SG1 Stelson|
Thursday, October 13, 2011 @ 01:28:44 PM
My younger brothers got Kinect used it for about a week then it sat there collecting dust, and now I have a use for it. I like to think it's finally worth the $150 they paid for it =)
|Comment #136 by PimpledMr Brown|
Thursday, October 13, 2011 @ 04:15:38 PM
hope thee dont put any achievements like this in Mass Effect or Ghost Recon
|Comment #137 by Rollett|
Friday, October 14, 2011 @ 01:09:11 AM
I honestly don't get all the kinect hate.. its not that bad and some of the games are fun.
|Comment #138 by RYARNI|
Friday, October 14, 2011 @ 09:52:19 AM
They might as well have said buy a Lips mic and song whilst driving, stupid achievement, you dont even have to do anything of use for it!
|Comment #139 by Gilian85|
Friday, October 14, 2011 @ 11:01:40 AM
They should name the achievement.
look that sucker he bought a kinect for just 5 g. another ms ripoff
|Comment #140 by XbAndy360|
Friday, October 14, 2011 @ 11:16:44 AM
I've got this 5g. But the only feature Kinect is good for: autovista.
That's real fun.
|Comment #141 by Scuderia MJ|
Friday, October 14, 2011 @ 02:11:21 PM
Though i dont appreciate Kinect i have to agree with the comment above, it does surprisingly add to the Autovista experience, but that's all it adds to :/
|Comment #142 by Broken profile|
Friday, October 14, 2011 @ 06:02:03 PM
If anyone lives in Ottawa send me a msg, you can drop by and get the achievement. Just make sure your a woman, and hot, and don't mind people that stare.
|Comment #143 by StingerSplash01|
Friday, October 14, 2011 @ 07:30:34 PM
@#141 Actually T1
|Comment #144 by StingerSplash01|
Friday, October 14, 2011 @ 07:55:36 PM
ignore the last comment, browser hiccuped. @#141 Actually T10 spent a lot of time with the kinect to try to create an enhance experience when simply using the kinect with controller based controls. They made it so you can look into corners for example, which may not seem like much, but considering that a person will either look where they are going or turn their head subconsciously in some case in the direction they are moving, have the kinect auto turn the view into the corner can add to the simulation experience. Autovista was a way for them to experiment with Kinect controls to use it elsewhere. On the subject at hand for people saying they should have made it 0 GS, some games 100% flag is controlled by the number of achievements earned out of the total no total gamerscore. Also had the
|Comment #145 by StingerSplash01|
Friday, October 14, 2011 @ 07:57:17 PM
Continued from above...
Also had they made it 0, nobody would have bothered to even attempt the achievement because it is zero. Achievements are designed to entice you to attempt things you may otherwise attempt to do, and reward you for accomplishing tasks in a given game. It is just 5 gs so it shouldn't as big of a deal as your making it, I would be more pissed if it was 1 GS. They have the right to make their achievements however they want. As for the GS rules, the rule is that all base 1000 GS must be obtainable without purchasing extra content (DLC), not extra peripherals. And those who say that Kinect is intended just for casual games and kids are out of their mind, Kinect was always intended to become an experience enhancer allowing game makers to add features that use it to expa
|Comment #146 by StingerSplash01|
Friday, October 14, 2011 @ 07:59:21 PM
Again Continued from Above...
expand on what simply can't effectively be done on a controller alone. It was also intended to increase immersion within games in various ways, like looking-into-corners in F4, or being able to direct you squadmates using voice commands or saying your lines in ME3. Motion Controlled assisted gaming will be around for the foreseeable future, and once companies realize that Kinect can be used for than casual games or workout games (like T10 or Bioware is doing) then the Kinect can really come into it on. Steel Battalion also looks like another game that will mix the two controls well. It's an easy achievement anyway, if you don't get it shouldn't be a big deal as you will still enjoy the game irregardless of one achievement, you guys should be complaining abo
|Comment #147 by StingerSplash01|
Friday, October 14, 2011 @ 08:00:52 PM
about the lvl 50 MFG. achievement as they say that should take 99% of player more than 24 months to complete.
the comment system does not like my long post.
|Comment #148 by mystic mosh|
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 08:57:59 AM
This is as fucking lame as having a camera for Burnout Paradise. Kinect is and always will be bollocks. What the fuck happened to just sitting there pressing buttons!?. Instead of trying to acommadate useless motion control shite, Turn 10 just had to bow down to the money grabbing wankers at microsoft. Rest of the game is fuckin' brilliant though!!!.
|Comment #149 by OvalTuna|
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 05:41:42 PM
i can just imagine it now. only doing 2-3 races at a time cuz your sore haha.
start holding your hands out now see how long u want to play for.... stupidest
|Comment #150 by Cinderquill|
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 06:11:07 PM
One of my friends has Kinect, so I went and got the achievement there. i have to agree that it's horrible, it's really hard to control. I didn't try out autovista. But to the people complaining about it, I agree with what bigsilentrob said, Rock Band 3 you need all the instruments to get 1000g on that. At least you could go on to use the kinect to get Gamerscore on other games, however with the RB3 keyboard you couldn't
|Comment #151 by pardner4848|
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 07:41:17 PM
whew so glad i got a kinect with xbox for christams last year now i can 1000g it when i get it
|Comment #152 by DJ HOGGY 206|
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 06:46:35 PM
people are dumb, its 5g, who cares go cry somewere else
|Comment #153 by francisrossi|
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 @ 04:01:21 AM
Bunch of fucking crybabies. Does it really matter? Will the big kids give you a swirly because you haven't got all 1000 GS?
|Comment #154 by THAT1GUY084|
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 @ 03:44:36 PM
just go to ur fucking friends house that has it...jeesus..or go to a gamestop by ur house and ask em to let u do it there...
|Comment #155 by I ROADRUNNER I|
Wednesday, October 19, 2011 @ 04:59:46 AM
time to call my friend to bring his kinect and get this achievement
|Comment #156 by Dark Angel Arus|
Friday, October 21, 2011 @ 04:56:54 AM
I have Kinect, so all is good for me.
I guess I'll have a few mates round achievement whoaring!
|Comment #157 by RJMWalsh|
Monday, October 24, 2011 @ 01:06:15 AM
Stop having a go at everyone it's not that bad!!!!!!
|Comment #158 by ravingeddie|
Wednesday, October 26, 2011 @ 06:35:19 AM
its only 5 points, but even so its a shame, plus i'll lose the import aq file from forza 3 as deleted the files once got rid of the game..... so that double sad
|Comment #159 by parrafan182|
Monday, October 31, 2011 @ 02:24:37 AM
just to make it hurt a bit more, it pops in the first 1 or 2 seconds of the race!
|Comment #160 by Dylan101|
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 06:06:44 AM
I can't believe how many people would sacrifice playing such an amazing game just because of 5G... It's just insane to see what people would do to get 100%. Also, anyone who still thinks that Kinect is a crappy little overpriced kids toy, think again. It's in the Guinness Book of World Records for being the "fastest selling consumer electronics device." Lastly to anyone who thinks that we are whining, you're all just bitching because you know we're right.
|Comment #161 by DonJamma|
Sunday, November 27, 2011 @ 05:16:32 PM
Can somebody loan me a Kinect :(
|Comment #162 by Nerdz0r|
Friday, December 02, 2011 @ 03:20:52 PM
What a sham! They say that games must come with a 1000G at retail. If you lot are saying the case has kinect written on the front, it should be a kinect game. Not an XBOX 360 GAME! I wouldn't usually get 1000G on a game like this any way, but I feel sorry for those that would.
|Comment #163 by lizbizz3|
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 09:46:51 AM
May I borrow someone's Kinect sensor? XD
|Comment #164 by bikertomtom|
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 05:14:14 AM
This is fucking stupid, and the only reason I did'nt buy the game. I definately will get it as Im a huge fan of forza 3, but this just really lower my respect of the series :'(
Silly silly silly, 995 for me too.
|Comment #165 by Marklar|
Sunday, January 08, 2012 @ 05:38:45 PM
I don't think I was gonna get 1000G anyways
|Comment #166 by richrox|
Monday, January 16, 2012 @ 10:38:39 AM
Have to add my voice to the "this sucks" side of the fence. In my opinion Forza is not a Kinnect game. Including an achievement which requires the Kinnect without another non Kinnect option to get the points is a very bad choice on Turn 10's part!
|Comment #167 by sparda500|
Friday, January 27, 2012 @ 01:04:29 PM
Thank you Turn10 just makes me owning kinect that little bit better :D
|Comment #168 by KaputIndiana820|
Saturday, January 28, 2012 @ 07:45:30 PM
anyone please gift me any unneeded cars
|Comment #169 by RAINES69|
Monday, January 30, 2012 @ 01:01:20 AM
Heres an idea...if you want to complain about the achievement go the forums. If you want to help people on how to get achievements (which is what this page is intended for) then please do so.
|Comment #170 by Gummybear5000|
Saturday, February 11, 2012 @ 09:12:35 AM
I am looking to buy a collection of 30 buggati veryon 16.4 on forza 4 I also though found that most cars on the auction house have designs so I am asking if anyone has any buggati veryon 16.4 msg me on xbox live I am looking to pay between 0 and 500000 please msg me @ Gummybear5000 plain ones only pls
|Comment #171 by Xfalling DeathX|
Sunday, February 26, 2012 @ 03:46:08 PM
At least its not like mass effect 2 where youll miss out on ober 500G if you dont buy 47$ worth of dlc.
|Comment #172 by Xfalling DeathX|
Sunday, February 26, 2012 @ 03:48:45 PM
*over. Autocorrect keeps changing it.
|Comment #173 by CrashOverride82|
Saturday, March 03, 2012 @ 08:19:53 PM
guess ya gotta give Turn10 credit for TRYING to play with our "want" to gain all achievements...
|Comment #174 by v iP0is0n x|
Friday, April 06, 2012 @ 08:30:05 AM
dont get what the big deal is, just ask a friend round with their kinect i did :)
|Comment #175 by INEEDNAWZZZ|
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 @ 05:13:33 AM
I'm laughing at how you're all bitching about how Microsoft are trying to FORCE you to buy a Kinect just to get a poxy, 5G achievement, and then some of you actually consider buying it just for that. That's kinda sad. I also like how some of you are saying they threw Kinect in just to add this achievement, get you all wound up and then end up buying one. Forza was targeted at both hardcore sim racing fans as well as casual gamers; it makes sense they'd put Kinect features in, not just to get you saddo's to buy one for - get this - ONE 5G ACHIEVEMENT.
|Comment #176 by xZarfotAcheivements|
Wednesday, June 06, 2012 @ 10:50:47 AM
:/ kind of a let down they put this in. All people raging it is kind of sad that your so upset about it. But also people defending it is very pathetic that you support these achievements.
End of the day this was put in to tease people to buy a kinect wether you like it or not lol. Its pure marketing. End of discussion
|Comment #177 by keyserheel1|
Thursday, June 21, 2012 @ 05:05:08 PM
So many freaking whining babies on this thread...LOL at the lot of you...
|Comment #178 by Joshi 82 AT|
Thursday, July 12, 2012 @ 12:55:50 AM
Complaining about something you don't like doesn't make you a crybaby.... A game's 1000G should be obtainable without extra hardware equipment
|Comment #179 by lincoln80|
Monday, August 06, 2012 @ 03:56:14 PM
ANY ONE IN THE CHILLIWACK BC AREA WANTING TO LET ME LOAD UP FOR 5 MINS $20 IN IT FOR TO GET THIS ONE. MESSAGE ME GT lincoln80
|Comment #180 by UgotPWNDkthxbi|
Thursday, August 16, 2012 @ 10:43:26 PM
Can I just ask what genius thought it was a good idea to put head tracking in a racing game? Or any game really...you have to turn your head to look to the sides of the car...but when you turn your head...YOU CAN'T FUCKING SEE THE SCREEN ANYMORE! Geez Turn 10, I used you give you guys a LOT more credit than this. This was a STUPID idea!
|Comment #181 by PirateMatt1|
Wednesday, November 07, 2012 @ 01:34:33 PM
Overall I'm not too disappointed, its only 5 points. Maybe I can borrow someone's kinect.
|Comment #182 by Shane724|
Saturday, July 06, 2013 @ 01:40:29 AM
I'm so glad I had some use for my Kinect, albeit only 5 minutes.
|Comment #183 by YoYoDuDe12345|
Saturday, December 07, 2013 @ 11:03:28 PM
What up with the whining? Its freaking 5 Gamerscore!
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