Anyone else think Banjo Tooie sucks compared to Banjo Kazooie?

[mjc0961]

Originally Posted by Thinreaper

Making worlds really big and complex does not = challenge or fun. It's just poor game design imo which is why i didnt like what Rare did with Donkey Kong 64 either. Banjo Kazooie was simple yet hugely enjoyable and that is what makes a good 3d platformer imo.

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That's why I don't like this game! I never liked DK64 either, and now that you mentioned that game, I remembered that exactly the same thing I've found annoying in Tooie, I found annoying in DK64 as well.

Originally Posted by FinTacular

It's 70 jiggies.

ffffffffffffffffff... Dammit. I though just 55 Jiggies (to do the last puzzle) and I'd be home free to beat Grunty's ass again. But 15 more beyond that? Meeeeeeh.

Although, I will give this game credit for one thing that it does have over Kazooie (and DK64). I just murdered a giant talking ice cube. That was epic win if I ever saw it.

[slatanica]

Yes this one is worse than the first.

[TheFalcon]

i prefer kazooie over tooie for reasons that others stated earlier. the worlds became too complex and just generally irritating because you always have to go back and forth from place to place. the thing that bugs me the most is that when you get to a new world, especially witchyworld and after, you can't even access half the level because it requires moves you need to learn 1 or 2 worlds later. you spend all this time trying to figure out what to do and then you learn a new move and it becomes obvious.

with that said, tooie did improve on a few things. the warp pads and silos were a huge improvement over the cauldrons from the first game. i also liked being able to play as mumbo and introducing wumba to take over the old mumbo role of transformations.

[WithTheDawn]

No way, this is one example where a great game has an even better sequel. Both games are classics though, of course.

[Blue Radium]

Kazooie was better, but only because I don't get this strange confused feeling that I get while playing Tooie. While playing Tooie, everything feels overwhelming, a feeling like constant over multiple tasking is present. I really don't know why either. Maybe because you can't get every Jiggy the first time you visit a level, maybe because of the transformation system, maybe because of all of the little hidden stuff that you see while doing something important, then having to stop what you are doing to get the item... there is always something overlapping with something else. It's because of this that as a whole I see Kazooie as a better game. The pacing is, in my opinion, a lot better in Kazooie.

[Poida]

Its way superior to the first one, its got more abilities, more stuff to do.

[Yinga Garten]

I'm going to revive this thread because I still feel that this needs more discussion.

If I reviewed both Kazooie and Tooie, Kazooie would be the better game. Tooie is basically just too complicated, some of the new idea's in the game where good while others weren't. And the least said about Nuts and Bolts the better.

[Ross H]

Yeah, I wouldn't put it to the extent of "sucking" but I've never enjoyed playing it as much as the original.

[Sparda]

Here's my lengthy view on all of this.

I'll start by saying I prefer Banjo-tooie. In Banjo Kazooie you were a bear and bird duo fighting through a witches lair in order to save Banjo's abducted sister. As far as plots go Banjo Kazooie honestly didn't have a whole lot of it. I also had a feeling of being sort of trapped in Banjo Kazooie. If you stop and think about it, you were in a tower the entire time you were playing the game. Sure the levels were varried, but they were also pretty small and still stuck within the confines of Gruntilda's lair. I also feel that the interactions with NPC's were fairly limited, you find a mole hill and bottles just gives you a move, you find cheato and there's a free cheat. Maybe it's just me, but none of the NPC's other than Gruntilda and Mumbo Jumbo felt very active or "Alive" to me. Don't get me wrong I absolutely adored Banjo Kazooie and bought it the instant it hit the marketplace, it's just in comparison Banjo Tooie has a lot more to offer in the end.

Banjo Tooie starts off with the more established and well known characters in Banjo Kazooie, then it adds some new ones very quickly while letting you keep all your old moves. In my opinion Banjo Tooie gives you some backstory very fast and even opens up lands beyond Spiral Mountain and Gruntilda's Lair. It was a large and fairly vibrant land with many path's and area's. I didn't feel so stuck and confined in that world. With the addition of Banjo and Kazzoie splitting, you had the possibility of Banjo using his wonder napsack without Kazooie occupying it. Then you had Kazzoie moving without the bear weighing her down, and able to fulfill some birdly duties. Then you had the ability to play as mumbo, and while those times are fairly short, they were tons of fun. Banjo Tooie just felt more interactive and expansive, and honestly I like the backtracking. It's far too convenient to learn one or two moves, then suddenly everything in that level can be aquired. With backtracking it makes the world feel more beleivable to me, since there are obstacles you can only get past as you progress farther. Lastly, all the upgrades you get required collection, not just locating people. Mumbo Jumbo and Humba Wumba both needed a glowbo, The Honey Bee needed honeycomb sections, and Jamjars needed notes. Nothing is really handed to you in Banjo Tooie, you need to do some thinking and collecting in order to win.

I also want to throw in that I liked Nuts and Bolts. It was the same universe years later, then they got taken to a new land with new rules. The thing that made me like it is that it never really broke character for the universe as a whole, it was simply different. Although I would like a return to form from the Rare team.

In the end the whole series is connected extremely well, it has a fun and quirky feeling to it, and all in all (the first two games especially) it's an extremely fun series full of puzzles and platforming.

[slmmzy]

Tooie's a case of just because it's bigger and more in-depth doesn't make it a more enjoyable game. The game feels very overwhelming and complex and has too many distractions from the things that actually matter. It also feels a bit like genre-whoring and the backtracking gets tedious.

At least that's what I remember from the N64 version, maybe things will change on another playthrough.

[minimaster58]

Every time I'm told to go to another level for a jiggy I die a little inside.

[DeadSpace99]

I remember having a funner time with the second one during the good old N64 days. I've yet to play it on the 360

[Goldchubby]

I gotta say i like kazooie better for many reasons...
I dont like how to worlds intertwine with each other for jiggies, i dont like splitting up, i dont like many of the levels, kazooie is just better

[DogPoloni]

I preffered Kazooie. I had never played Tooie on the N64 and playing it for the first time on the XBLA was a dissapointment, it was extremely difficult. I had no idea what to do or what I was doing, the levels kept going back and forth and everything was so complicating, impossible to complete wthout a guide. I half-completed the first level and then used a walkthrough for the rest of the game.

[Kronephoros]

They ditched Grunty's rhyming in Tooie, that alone was enough for me to say Kazooie was the better game! (That and having to constantly backtrack though all the worlds, glad the achievements on Tooie weren't so focused on completionism as Kazooie was, there were some Jiggies I honestly took one look at how to get and thought "No thanks, Ill pass")

[qSasukep]

both games are great.... i cant believe you'd flame tooie before N&B.
although i have to confess that banjo-tooie was alot harder then the first one i still cant say anything bad about either game, to me, there perfect

[njdevils17]

I love both Kazooie and Tooie.

I like how BT added a lot of new stuff like new moves and more challenging ways of getting jiggies.

I think Tooie is better than Kazooie by the slimmest of margins. Both games are way better than Nuts and Bolts though.

[mceggnog]

I think the reason people dislike Tooie compared to Banjo-Kazooie is because Banjo-Kazooie only required a few instances of back-tracking to previously played worlds. There is quite a bit more thinking involved in solving the challenges of Tooie, whereas Banjo-Kazooie was mostly skill-based.

[ManaReaper]

Tooie is far superior to Kazooie, though I like Kazooie more. The reason may be it's darker tone. It's nowhere near as bright and cheery as Kazooie. I remember liking Tooie more when I was a kid but now I choose Kazooie, both better than most retail releases!

[LowerKibbles]

Tooie has so much more to do and has many more things overall and it takes longer to complete, therefore making it better than Kazooie. However, for some strange reason, I still prefer Kazooie to Tooie.

[xCaressOfSteelx]

I fell that Tooie is definately better...they took a fantastic game concept, and improved it. Haven't played Nuts & Bolts

[MikeyTruant]

well i originally had both on 64 and always loved kazooie more, i mean i love backtracking but at some point you've got to say cut the crap and with tooie there is so much backtracking back and forth it just lost its appeal to me, and even though i played kazooie a looooooooong time ago, i still remembered where everything was

[Eggy]

it's probably because I played tooie first, but I think it's better than kazooie. I was at the age of about 12 when I first played it and I found this game to be so huge and interesting, there was always something to explore. I played kazooie a few years later and it seemed really simpler in comparison. maybe it would have been the other way around if I had played them in the correct order, but now I prefer tooie and I don't dislike the complexity. I also liked the connection between the levels(like, pushing an ice cube from the sky into the lava/ice world where it melts in a sea so that the water can warm up the water in jolly rogers lagoon. this sure makes it complicated as hell, but it's pure fun once it's done).

[eagerestwolf]

I agree that tooie is better than kazooie and i played kazooie first, in fact it was the first game i ever owned on the 64 but there just so many cool things like all the abilitiesand stuff.

[mistwhisper117]

I like them both. I appreciate the new moves and other improvements. I actually beat Banjo-Tooie before Banjo-Kazooie so maybe I am biased.

[MR. RAiDER 702]

Banjo Kazzoie for better levels, and the ending fight with the Jiggy was nothing short of epic

[aintezbeinweezy]

I haven't played the second one yet but plan on it.

Sorry to derail a little bit but I'm curious as to why Nuts & Bolts is so bad? I was planning on getting it sometime but am having second thoughts. Would it not be good for my 10 year old either?

[AltarofPlagues]

kazooie is a classic but why is it so damn pricey on XBLA?

[Harryson9]

N&B is deffinetly my favorite just the physics and the creation is so much fun Tooie is my second i never got into the first one though i will admit the first 2 levels are so good

[Farmer_jimbob]

I grew up playing Kazooie on the N64 but never got a chance to play Tooie until I got it cheap off XLBA, so nostalgia points me towards the classic Kazooie, but allow me to elaborate.

Personally I love how Tooie continues right where Kazooie left off, to the extent that you don't even have to relearn old moves, but if someone were to play Tooie first I could imagine them being very lost and confused. Heck, I was struggling to remember the moves of Kazooie again, never mind learning new tricks!

I have yet to finish Tooie, which may affect my overall opinion, but Kazooie was the easier game imo. There seems to be a lot more back-tracking in Tooie and it's easy to get lost at times if you're new to the area. However, in regards to gameplay and graphics, Tooie is superior, but you expect that from a sequel.

Short version, Kazooie is the easier game and, imo, the more fun one so far. Although nostalgia is mostly to blame for that. As for N&B, I've yet to play it, but from what I've heard about it, I'm expecting disappointment from it.