9/10 Difficulty?

[Ephidel]

Seriously?

I mean, I know we live in a CoD generation but I find it hard to believe any TBS to be a 9/10, simply because it's a TBS. I guess I'm biased because of my extensive background in such games, but like I said, I seriously find NINE OUT OF TEN to be OTT as a rating.

And yes, I'm more than well aware of RNGs and the like, but if you get your arse handed to you, it's because you screwed up, not because the game cheated. Method, caution and practice, not run, twitch and shoot.

[DEG23]

I assume you are referring to the achievement guide. The reason for the 9/10 is for achievements like 'No Looking Back' & 'Our Finest Hour.' Classic Ironman Mode can be quite challenging in the first few months especially as the game can punish you for the smallest mistake and you are even more likely to make mistakes if you aren't yet used to the game or TBS games in general.

The same goes for Impossible difficulty. It took me 4 attempts before I made it past month 1. Without inflating my ego, I grew up with strategy games but this game really puts you up against the ropes in the first month and is heavily reliant on a lucky RNG outcome.

Most of the people I talked to said the game itself wasn't difficult but going for certain achievements was, hence the 9/10. There is a common trend on this site where often people who post too lower difficulty receive backlash from the community because the game is proving harder than what the guide said it would, however if more people in the community feel 9/10 is OTT, I am more than happy to change it.

If anything, take solace in the fact you find this game easier than what was specified in the guide

[Ephidel]

Hey man, I wasn't putting others down or anything, it's just that I still haven't got around to doing BCR, because it's got a lot of BS fights in it and the last few challenge rooms are a nightmare (over 300 fails each so far and I also grew up on Mega Man & Contra, so yeah, pretty unforgiving). So comparing a game where you can, at very least, plan your next move and forcibly "re-roll the dice" of the RNG to manipulate the outcome as an equal or greater difficulty to a game where you have next to no time to think your move, and you get caught by almost impossible precision perfect multiple attacks where you'll see the game over screen in seconds, I find that a hard to accept comparison.

Maybe it's just apples and oranges, but to me, some games kick your arse back to the beginning when progress isn't defined by luck, but memory perfect practice. With luck, like I said before, you can roll the dice until you get a workable outcome, but with memory perfect, split second reactions, you have a very demotivational uphill struggle.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I find Mega Man 9's bullshit item grinding so unpleasant that I've never gotten around to finishing it, but all the C&Cs aren't that bad by comparison. Meh, whatever, just a thought.

[asdfen]

Its not Ninja Giaden 2 difficulty if thats what you mean

[The Grendel]

Um, not to sound like a jackass, but you have barely played XCOM at all. Trust us, going for an Ironman game on Classic is a 9/10.

[Rage66]

Classic Ironman is a Joke , trust me. After beating Impossible you will laugh how Easy Classic Difficulty is.

Impossible is the Real Challenge in this Game, nothing else.

8.5 / 10 imo ;-)

[lethargicj]

I always assumed the difficulty scores were meant to represent the difficulty in getting 1000/1000 not meant to represent the difficulty of the game. Sure, if you just play the game from start to finish, it's no 9/10 but if you want to get every single achievement that's going to take a lot more effort.

[BrinkX]

EDIT Update 1/28/2013: Changed my mind after playing further... see second post farther down in this thread... (I still think the "split difficulty" is a good thing)

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Originally Posted by Ephidel

So comparing a game where you can, at very least, plan your next move and forcibly "re-roll the dice" of the RNG to manipulate the outcome as an equal or greater difficulty to a game where you have next to no time to think your move, and you get caught by almost impossible precision perfect multiple attacks where you'll see the game over screen in seconds, I find that a hard to accept comparison.

Maybe it's just apples and oranges...

I would have to agree with you about this comparison being one of "apples and oranges". Two completely different game genres :-)

From my understanding about the way the game works the RNG mechanics, you can't really do what you are talking about during an Ironman run. From DEC23's "Achievement Guide & Roadmap":

"NOTE: The percentage outcome of both your shots and the alien's shots landing is decided at the start of each turn. So saving directly before taking a shot and reloading if the shot misses is pointless. You need to save at the end of the previous turn to alter the outcome of your shots."

...and since in Ironman the game overwrites your save file at the BEGINNING of your turn, no point in reloading a save to try the shot again. I would imagine it lets you try out a different tactic by reloading your save, but you can't "re-roll the dice" over and over to get the kill. I understand the dash-boarding exploit, but even that would not help, as I have already heard from a couple of XCOM diehards about losing one of their favorite soldiers no matter what they tried.

I haven't played Ironman yet (still on my first run... and LOVING this game), but listening to what most people are saying and if you look at the TrueAchievements.com ratios being given to the achievements, I am definitely not looking forward to Impossible or Ironman Classic. IMO it does sound like the 9/10 is warranted :-). Plus you have to play through the whole game a minimum of 5 times.

Maybe a split "Estimated Difficulty" is needed like I have seen in other guides... Dead Space 2 was: "Estimated Difficulty: 4/10 for 900 GS (7/10 for 1000 GS)", so maybe this game needs to be "Estimated Difficulty: 5/10 for 850 GS (9/10 for 1000 GS)"... or maybe 8.5/10 like Rage66 proposed :-). Also I think lethargicj makes a very good point...

Originally Posted by lethargicj

I always assumed the difficulty scores were meant to represent the difficulty in getting 1000/1000 GS not meant to represent the difficulty of the game. Sure, if you just play the game from start to finish, it's no 9/10 but if you want to get every single achievement that's going to take a lot more effort.

[Ephidel]

Originally Posted by Rage66

Classic Ironman is a Joke , trust me. After beating Impossible you will laugh how Easy Classic Difficulty is.

Impossible is the Real Challenge in this Game, nothing else.

8.5 / 10 imo ;-)

Just started Impossible difficulty, which has a lot of BS, but I have the patience of a saint and I love the game, plus blasting those aliens never gets old, so I'm enjoying it.

The difficulty feels more like a 7.5 or an 8 at most, I have the time to invest and the game still allows multiple saves, so I'm happy with that too.

My overall feeling about the definition of "difficulty" is that a game which spontaneously forces you through a set piece of hell is more difficult than one which readily allows time, thought and replays in the face of, in essence, a stacked set of mathematical problems. That is why I make the BCR comparison, because BCR doesn't forgive and it doesn't allow you time to think.

I didn't even own the game when I made this thread, but I knew exactly what to expect as I had explained my previous veterancy earlier.

My only complaint is that a few of the secret Achievements would be impossible to guess, so it doesn't feel like a 1000G (or 1100G) that would come naturally, which a bit of a design lapse imo.

[DEG23]

Originally Posted by Ephidel

Just started Impossible difficulty, which has a lot of BS, but I have the patience of a saint and I love the game, plus blasting those aliens never gets old, so I'm enjoying it.

You hadn't tried Impossible before making this thread

In all seriousness though, i think many would agree the first month on Impossible is probably the hardest. It took me 4 times before i was in good enough shape to continue and not struggle through the next 2 months. Even abusing reloading earlier saves, the game is still extremely tough because of the number of enemies you go up against and how powerful they are. Even in full cover it seems you die 75% of the time.

Classic Ironman is easy by comparison but even then, the first few months can still come down to chance. So if anything, this game is not difficult because of the AI gameplay or a steep learning curve but rather the RNG that's thrown in the mix. I lost count of how many times i had a 95% chance to hit and still missed

Originally Posted by lethargicj

I always assumed the difficulty scores were meant to represent the difficulty in getting 1000/1000 not meant to represent the difficulty of the game. Sure, if you just play the game from start to finish, it's no 9/10 but if you want to get every single achievement that's going to take a lot more effort.

This is what the difficulty rating represents. Like i mentioned above, even if you were to abuse the sign out/ reload earlier saves method, the game is still very difficult in the early stages of Ironman Mode and Impossible difficulty.

I've changed the guide to break the difficulty up into 2 ratings, 6/10 for 810 & 9/10 for the full 1000

[Pr1nzPriapismus]

Originally Posted by BrinkX

So saving directly before taking a shot and reloading if the shot misses is pointless. You need to save at the end of the previous turn to alter the outcome of your shots

...and since in Ironman the game overwrites your save file at the BEGINNING of your turn, no point in reloading a save to try the shot again.

This is not 100% correct.
It is correct that the shot misses and misses again when reloading and shooting from the same position. Simply save before moving your soldier to their "designated position" and if he fails to hit from that position just reload the save and position your soldier on a different spot/tile and you will get a new chance to hit that lil sucker! Did this 100s of times in my Impossible walkthrough. ;-)

I gave up on not cheating on my Ironman Walkthrough but there is way to much randomness involved. Gave up after my fourth useless attempt and used the "sign out/sign in" option and all of a sudden, Imposible walkthrough was a piece of cake since you could start from the beginning of your round and re-positin your squad to ensure that almost every shot hits.

My deepest respect goes to the handfull of people who really did the Ironman cheevo without cheating!

[Ephidel]

Originally Posted by DEG23

You hadn't tried Impossible before making this thread

In all seriousness though, i think many would agree the first month on Impossible is probably the hardest. It took me 4 times before i was in good enough shape to continue and not struggle through the next 2 months. Even abusing reloading earlier saves, the game is still extremely tough because of the number of enemies you go up against and how powerful they are. Even in full cover it seems you die 75% of the time.

Classic Ironman is easy by comparison but even then, the first few months can still come down to chance. So if anything, this game is not difficult because of the AI gameplay or a steep learning curve but rather the RNG that's thrown in the mix. I lost count of how many times i had a 95% chance to hit and still missed

So, I whipped the living shit out of Impossible. It's only really frustrating at the start of the game against Thin Men with a 4 man squad wearing starter gear. I tried to do the Confounding Light mission with over 3 turns left but, yeah, by the time I finally finished the mission it was the last turn with my last person and I killed only about 4 Thin Men and legged it from the rest.

Colonel Shaojie Zhang, Titan Armour, max Psionics, Plasma Cannon, Shredder Rockets, Standard Rockets, Blaster Launcher, HEAT Ammo, Alien Grenades and Chitin Plating. That's what I used for Lone Wolf on Impossible and even then I had to reload about 20 times because of the Ethereal's 100%+ Accuracy.

I have discovered a great tip though. Hunker Down to reduce your sight range and if a normally visible enemy in your FoV is "out of sight range" whilst Hunkered Down (might only work in Full Cover), he won't attack and just shuffle a bit and go into Overwatch.

Also, check the Wikia and make a point of the enemies with the Bombard skill. Those fucking Grenades take the piss.

That said, it's only frustrating at the start, and even then, it's not that bad.

CMGTSMMGGTS

[Ephidel]

1100G completed!

No Mods, Cheats, Hacks or Glitches used.

Easy peasy, though the bullshit RNG and spawning system still manages to irritate me.

9/10? Nope.

7/10? Sounds about right.

It only took me 2 whole weeks of my life to grind this bastard out as well. I ended up doing 6 playthroughs because I picked Europe twice as my base.

[BrinkX]

Originally Posted by DEG23

Most of the people I talked to said the game itself wasn't difficult but going for certain achievements was, hence the 9/10. There is a common trend on this site where often people who post too lower difficulty receive backlash from the community because the game is proving harder than what the guide said it would, however if more people in the community feel 9/10 is OTT, I am more than happy to change it.

Initially I was completely onboard with what you were saying and was dreading Impossible and Classic Ironman... however after finishing Impossible and now being almost done with Classic Ironman, I have to side with Ephidel...

Originally Posted by Ephidel

1100G completed! No Mods, Cheats, Hacks or Glitches used. Easy peasy, though the bullshit RNG and spawning system still manages to irritate me. 9/10? Nope. 7/10? Sounds about right.
It only took me 2 whole weeks of my life to grind this bastard out as well. I ended up doing 6 playthroughs because I picked Europe twice as my base

The fact that I WAS able to get through these difficulties proves that 9/10 is OTT :-)

Taking it slow and steady, using overwatch, always covering each other as you move up, etc., makes this much easier than I ever expected.

There are 8/10 and 9/10 games that I still have yet to complete and it is not like I haven't tried (Spelunky, Mrs. Splosionman,... heck even Gears of War 3 with Seriously 3.0 is listed as only a 6/10). If you listen to the advice in the guides on here it will still be a struggle, but it is definitely doable. Where as I don't think I will ever be able to complete Splelunky in under 8 minutes... let alone complete it period :-)

Like everyone has said getting through the first couple of months on both Impossible and Classic Ironman can be very difficult at times, but it is actually the key to the game. Plan on and be willing to accept that you will probably lose some countries (who cares about South America) and some soldiers... "that is XCOM baby!".

The fact that you can totally abuse the save system on Impossible just makes that a slow going affair. Also, you can push off story related missions until you are ready so that the UFO attacks on your satellites won't be as bad (plus always having at least one "Uplink Targeting" built for your Interceptors helps out tremendously with UFO attacks... you only need one and it can be used by any of your Interceptors and after you use it just build another).

Then once you have completed Impossible, Classic Ironman ends up seeming not anywhere near as bad compared to Impossible because of the lower amount of hit points on enemies. Again, as long as you move your troops up slowly and are always covering them... slow and steady wins the race. Plus if you are willing to "dashboard" once in awhile you can avoid those incredibly awful situations where you lose your favorite soldiers... and this is almost a requirement because of the stupid "AI teleporting bug" which I have seen way too many times in Ironman (and that bug is VERY SCARY).

I would agree that 7/10 is more like it, but would be willing to compromise and say 8/10 at most. But please keep in mind... it is just my humble opinion.

[DEG23]

^^^ Awww

It does seem like the game gets easier with practice. Trying to start on impossible would certainly prove to be 10/10. Now having gone through Ironman and impossible, playing on classic does seem easier than it originally did.

If no one else objects, i'll change the difficulty to 8/10

[Rage66]

8/10 is fine with me..

But all that Estimated Difficulty depends on what kind of Gamer you are..

for Example DMC 4 is listed as 10/10 but for me DMC4 was more like a 7.5 - 8 /10 Xcom Impossible gave me more trouble to be honest.

Maybe my Mistake was that i Started on Easy and went straight to Impossible and after getting my Ass kicked I did both CLASSIC and Impossible Playtroughs at the same Time. :P


Anyway... 8 / 10 is a good estimate imo.

[BrinkX]

Originally Posted by Rage66

But all that Estimated Difficulty depends on what kind of Gamer you are..
Maybe my Mistake was that i Started on Easy and went straight to Impossible and after getting my Ass kicked I did both CLASSIC and Impossible Playtroughs at the same Time. :P

Originally Posted by DEG23

It does seem like the game gets easier with practice. Trying to start on impossible would certainly prove to be 10/10. Now having gone through Ironman and impossible, playing on classic does seem easier than it originally did.

I followed DEG23's (AWESOME!) guide and moved up the difficulty scale slowly; Normal, Classic, Impossible and then Classic Ironman (I decided to save my 5th and final run as an Easy/Normal run incase I was completely sick of the game by that time... which I am NOT :-). This is key. Jumping right into Impossible or going right from Easy to Impossible I think would definitely make the game 10/10 or 9/10. But again, by following the (awesome) guide, when you get to your 4th/5th run you have a very good handle on how enemies spawn, how to move your troops, how to layout your base and acquire satellites with the right timing, etc., etc. and this will all go towards making a smoother time of it on those higher difficulties (though the enemy spawn problem and "teleporting AI enemies" make for some very difficult circumstances on Ironman :-( and hence the reason I have had to use the "dashboarding" exploit... "turnabout is fair play", right?) {If the game is going to cheat then it is only fair for me to do the same}

If you are not sure what I am referring to, type "xcom enemy teleport" into the search bar of YouTube and you will see what I mean. Here is an example (and this one is actually kind of funny because of the panic that ensues... I know it is from the PC, but it DOES happen on the Xbox... too many times for me to count actually):

Xcom: Enemy Unknown - Teleport Bug - YouTube

Xcom: Enemy Unknown - Teleport Bug - YouTube

HUGE TIP (Spoiler alert): If you are having problems with the panic level of countries (not soldiers)...

Spoiler! (click here to reveal)

Save the "Alien Base Assault" mission until you really need help getting panic levels down as completing this mission will reduce panic levels by 2... WORLDWIDE... meaning every single country. This can definitely be a life saver if you don't have enough satellites to deploy to cover countries at max panic level. Obviously do NOT wait too long if you are not having panic problems because each month that goes by the enemies get stronger and harder. IMHO.

EDIT 2/5/2013: It is official. I've totally completed this game, 1100 out of 1100. I really thought I might be sick of the game by the 5th play through, but alas, if there wasn't other games that need my attention :-), I would probably go for another run at Ironman because it was just so much fun. Loved this game. "That's XCOM baby!"

[BUZZARDIO 1080]

In my experience 9 is bang on, I love this game I really ,really love it,but those hard modes just crushed me, after a few months of trying to start an iron man on classic I finally gave up.it just seemed that the percentage chances were all against me, (I'd miss all the time ,and they would hit me all the time).I guess having the start s the toughest part screwed me right over , anyway great game , I just don't have the skill set to get through an alien invasion.
I've never spent so many hours on a game trying to do something , actually failing and putting it away.
Maybe one day I'll drag it out and try Again, but a the moment, it's still to soon , that bastard scarred me.
So yeah I vote 9