Expelled

[Apple]

So has anyone heard about this movie?
It's suppose to be the most controversial movie of the year.
It talks about the truths of evolution vs religion all over the world.

www.expelledthemovie.com


http://expelledthemovie.com/img/a_home_01.jpg

[Honkymagoo]

I did see an ad for this on TV or maybe in the beginning credits of a movie, I don't remember. Either way it looked pretty interesting and It's more than likely that I will end up seeing it.

[CORPSE CRISIS]

ya i think ive herd of this movie before

[kiwi18]

Yeah, it's going to be like the whole Harry Potter vs. The Catholic Church thing all over again.

[Bullet2theface]

Site is a bit slow... I want to see the trailer. :(

[Apple]

Yeah, it's going to be like the whole Harry Potter vs. The Catholic Church thing all over again.

WTF? It has nothing to do with that. It's pretty much how america won't allow Christianity to even be mentioned in school, but they teach evolution/Darwinism as if this is the only way people believe the universe was created/formed. This is ridiculous.

[martin88]

Well, then maybe the creationism advocators should start finding some evidence worth a shit. Seriously.

[fletcher2989]

What's awesome about being a Catholic is that you can take a whole bunch of different theories and believe in them and accept them and not be castrated by the Church for being curious when it comes to science and the creation of the world... People need to realize that the Bible is not and never will be a historical and/or credible document. Most of the Old Testament is just Jewish stories that have been told in many different cultures before Judaism, and half the things in there never really happened. Not to mention that the whole basic purpose of the Bible is basically a form of literature that is to be used as a form of reflection. There have been over 20 different versions of different and unique Gospels discovered, but a group of men about 130 years (circa 160 AD) after Jesus died (c. 30 AD) took only four of those Gospels and agreed that those four Gospels accurately portrayed who Jesus really was when it was 130 years after Jesus died and there was no way that they could've possibly known who he was and what he did... Basic moral of what I just said, the Bible and its Creation story are not credible or historical and should not be used by creationism advocators as support for their claims

[Apple]

Well, then maybe the creationism advocators should start finding some evidence worth a shit. Seriously.

What's awesome about being a Catholic is that you can take a whole bunch of different theories and believe in them and accept them and not be castrated by the Church for being curious when it comes to science and the creation of the world... People need to realize that the Bible is not and never will be a historical and/or credible document. Most of the Old Testament is just Jewish stories that have been told in many different cultures before Judaism, and half the things in there never really happened. Not to mention that the whole basic purpose of the Bible is basically a form of literature that is to be used as a form of reflection. There have been over 20 different versions of different and unique Gospels discovered, but a group of men about 130 years (circa 160 AD) after Jesus died (c. 30 AD) took only four of those Gospels and agreed that those four Gospels accurately portrayed who Jesus really was when it was 130 years after Jesus died and there was no way that they could've possibly known who he was and what he did... Basic moral of what I just said, the Bible and its Creation story are not credible or historical and should not be used by creationism advocators as support for their claims

Why are you guys trying to start arguments? Do you think any creationist wants to hear that? Leave it alone.

[fletcher2989]

Why are you guys trying to start arguments? Do you think any creationist wants to hear that? Leave it alone.

i think that's probably the whole point of the movie, to start arguments and get ideas going. Nothing happens if issues are just left alone and I simply said what I, and most the rational thinking community, believe is the appropriate stance on the issue

[Nick G 42390]

WTF? It has nothing to do with that. It's pretty much how america won't allow Christianity to even be mentioned in school, but they teach evolution/Darwinism as if this is the only way people believe the universe was created/formed. This is ridiculous.

It doesn't need to be mentioned in school. No religion does. Not everyone is a Christian and religion doesn't belong in school. If you wanna learn about religion, do it on your own..

[Cheezbrgr]

Whoa :O i read the title and i'm like 'wow someone got expelled'.......loading......'oh its a movie '

[Exiled Assassin]

haven`t heard about it but it looks pretty good.

[Apple]

It doesn't need to be mentioned in school. No religion does. Not everyone is a Christian and religion doesn't belong in school. If you wanna learn about religion, do it on your own..

WTF? Not everyone is a Christian huh? Well, not everyone believes in evolution/Darwinism. How's that for fair? You tell me.
Also, you do know they teach almost every religion in school, right? The thing they forget to mention is an alternate way of how the earth was created and formed. That is the problem.

i think that's probably the whole point of the movie, to start arguments and get ideas going. Nothing happens if issues are just left alone and I simply said what I, and most the rational thinking community, believe is the appropriate stance on the issue

The movie is do demonstrate the "war on Christians" in America and around the world. It also talks about how if you were to ever to question Darwinism you would be shut out by the evolution community. For the sake of keeping a one-minded stance in every child's head. We can only hope that kids in this country actually think about what they believe in. Heaven-forbid people actually allow something other than evolution to be taught in schools.

[Now Evergreen]

Schools teach on what science points to.

If science points to Catholicism, we'll head there.
If it points to Evolution, we'll head there.

At the moment, facts point towards the latter, and thus;
That's what we'll learn about

[martin88]

The fact of the matter is, Creationism is based on religious faith, not science.

Why should it be tought in science lessons when it is not science?

The movie is do demonstrate the "war on Christians" in America and around the world.

There is no war on Christians. The US is overwhelmignly christian. You have a constitutionally gauranteed right to be a Christian. If making other people learn Christian concepts is your idea of freedom, then I suggest you get a dictionary.

[Apple]

Schools teach on what science points to.

If science points to Catholicism, we'll head there.
If it points to Evolution, we'll head there.

At the moment, facts point towards the latter, and thus;
That's what we'll learn about

Sorry to inform you, there are no facts on evolution. It's all theory.

The fact of the matter is, Creationism is based on religious faith, not science.

Why should it be tought in science lessons when it is not science?


Why are we taught evolution when we have no evidence? This isn't a fight to get Christianity to be taught in schools, obviously read the previous posts. It's the fact that in our schools evolution is taught as the only way possible that the earth was created and formed. Which in case you didn't know, isn't. There are many sides of this question. Why only one answer is taught in schools, as a hypothesis, baffles me.


There is no war on Christians. The US is overwhelmignly christian. You have a constitutionally gauranteed right to be a Christian. If making other people learn Christian concepts is your idea of freedom, then I suggest you get a dictionary.

I don't know if you think you are more intellectual when you put words in my mouth, but you're not. I never said creationism should be made part of the curriculum.

Answer this. If the US is overwhelmingly Christian, why is evolution still the thesis of creation on earth? Wouldn't you think that we actually would be teaching creationism?

[Shaynringan]

Sorry to inform you, there are no fact on evolution. It's all theory.

Thank you! Goodness, people, there's no need to be so venomous. I think that's what the movie is trying to put forth, that people are so quick to cut down religious and creation beliefs because they are hard, if not impossible, to substantiate that they forget people are behind those beliefs...

I believe in God and Creation, but I keep an open mind and see the possibilities of evolution being true. Is it so hard to ask the same in return and respect someone else's harmless beliefs?

The crux of the matter is that education isn't about forcing beliefs on someone, it shouldn't be that way no matter what direction. The best form of education is raising awareness and demonstrating other beliefs, so that people can make their own informed decisions or not, right?

[martin88]

Do you know what the worrds "fact" and "theory" mean?

A fact is a single piece of provable data. A circle is round is a fact.

Theory is a set of facts that work together to form a system that stands up to scrutiny.

When people say "I have a theory... " in the sense of "a guess" they are using the word incorrectly.

Gravity, to give an unrelated example, is also a theory, it is a collection of facts that collectivly act as a system. Gravity is not a fact.

To say "Evolution is a theory" is to say "Evolution is a series of demonstratable facts that collectivley work together to show a system that can stand up to scrutiny."

[Now Evergreen]

Do you know what the worrds "fact" and "theory" mean?

A fact is a single piece of provable data. A circle is round is a fact.

Theory is a set of facts that work together to form a system that stands up to scrutiny.

When people say "I have a theory... " in the sense of "a guess" they are using the word incorrectly.

Gravity, to give an unrelated example, is also a theory, it is a collection of facts that collectivly act as a system. Gravity is not a fact.

To say "Evolution is a theory" is to say "Evolution is a series of demonstratable facts that collectivley work together to show a system that can stand up to scrutiny."


Therefore: My post was correct.

[martin88]

Therefore: My post was correct.

Yes. I was agreeing with you, it was the other guy who used the word theory incorrectly I was refering to.

Also: I catagorically believe there is no contradiction between the scientific world view and Christianity. Only a literal interpretation of the bible contradicts science.

[Now Evergreen]

That is a fair assessment in my mind.

Though I'm an Atheist, I've no issue with Religion or the like, as long as it's explained properly, and such.

[martin88]

A myself am an agnostic, in the sense of "I am genuinly confused as to whether or not there is a God". I remember when reading the God Delusion Dawkins talked of the poverty of agnosticism, but it didn't help any.

[Apple]

Do you know what the worrds "fact" and "theory" mean?

A fact is a single piece of provable data. A circle is round is a fact.

Theory is a set of facts that work together to form a system that stands up to scrutiny.

When people say "I have a theory... " in the sense of "a guess" they are using the word incorrectly.

Gravity, to give an unrelated example, is also a theory, it is a collection of facts that collectivly act as a system. Gravity is not a fact.

To say "Evolution is a theory" is to say "Evolution is a series of demonstratable facts that collectivley work together to show a system that can stand up to scrutiny."

the·o·ry
guess or conjecture

con·jec·ture
the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof

You didn't prove anything. These are straight from dictionary.com. Good try though, :p

[martin88]

Scientific definitions are different from regular ones.

Just consider the scientific definition of "work" for instance. Same applies to "Theory" and "Hypothesis". A hypothesis is what people would normally call a theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory#Science

"theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_%28abstract%29) or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena."

[Apple]

Scientific definitions are different from regular ones.

Just consider the scientific definition of "work" for instance. Same applies to "Theory" and "Hypothesis". A hypothesis is what people would normally call a theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory#Science

"theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_%28abstract%29) or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena."

What with you guys pushing only "one way" on us people. :p

The word theory has seven definitions on dictionary.com. Why am I subject to the definition that you think is the most accurate, when I'm the one who used it in my sentence? Obviously there is more than one way to use this word.

[martin88]

Ok. When you use the word, what do you mean? If you mean the "guess" definition, then I would say that's innaccurate. Science would reject evolution if it couldn't be backed up. Remember, Darwin was called a man mad at first, until more research was conducted.

[Apple]

Ok. When you use the word, what do you mean? If you mean the "guess" definition, then I would say that's innaccurate. Science would reject evolution if it couldn't be backed up. Remember, Darwin was called a man mad at first, until more research was conducted.

What I mean is; Evolution is a guess. There is nothing factual about it.

[Shaynringan]

That is a fair assessment in my mind.

Though I'm an Atheist, I've no issue with Religion or the like, as long as it's explained properly, and such.

Yeah, see, that's totally great :-) I don't think beliefs should ever be presented in a manner as to convert someone or dissuade them from their own beliefs in an educational setting, especially in one that is dictated by mandatory attendance such as high school. In my eyes, it would be absolutely wrong of a teacher to push evolution as the absolute as it would for another teacher to push Christian creation myth or Scientology creation myth as theirs.

In my high school, my biology teacher taught us evolution by making us sit around a table. She introduced the theory of evolution saying that it was the most scientifically accepted and supported theory out there. However, we had to respect that other people might not agree with it, just like any other story about how our world came about. She said since it hasn't been outright proven as fact, people are going to be able to contest it, but since there is more science backing evolution, it has been accepted as the 'most correct' but wasn't to be confused with 'absolutely correct and true.' She went into detail about the history of the evolutionary controversy since Darwin coined the idea, including famous experiments, studies, and court cases. She then invited us all to share our own beliefs and theories as to how humanity and life on Earth came about from our own religious backgrounds, and how they differed from evolution.

When we were done sharing, she had them all written on the board, and we compared them, not in the sense of their content but how little there was to be back any of them. She used her own example of the Invisible Pink Unicorn to support what she was leading to. She wanted us to all notice, in a joking way, that "All of what we believe may look absolutely silly to another person. What's important is that we respect others for what they believe, because this is going to be a touchy subject for everyone until more facts can be gleaned one way or another."

I thought that was freaking amazing. What she was getting at was she didn't want any of us to feel threatened about our own beliefs, and didn't want us to feel stupid for feeling disbelief in credible scientific facts. It's human nature to want people to 'prove it' but sometimes too far is too far. She continued saying she was going to spend the rest of the week demonstrating more facts that supported the theory of evolution as it was accepted in mainstream science. She said she did this because, even though she was a devout Catholic, it was her responsibility to the state and their educational standards to present evolutionary science, but she wanted to make it her own personal mission to present it not in an effort to convert us one way or another, but simply because it was so important to know... especially as we as a society delve farther into genetics.

I've always admired her for that and feel that its an attitude that should be followed in teaching this kind of science.

When it comes down to it, we're all wrong, until proven otherwise, but until then, we're still just wrong. What does it matter if we feel we're less wrong then someone else if in the end we don't know for sure? :-)

[martin88]

I would disagree, having studied it. For example, the similarity between fossils, and the genetic similarity between humans and greater apes. Especially the similarities between the behavoiur of those last two. And so on and so on.

[Jicholls]

Well.. This whole topic went off the subject of the movie and onto other pressing matters.

1.) I haven't seen this movie. But thanks for posting it looks interesting.

2.) I am athiest and all this is bull to me. There doesn't need to be arguments on this. Some people believe some things and others believes other things.

3.) In my opinion after reading this thread.(other than that it should be locked for people just arguing for the sake of arguing) I think God itself is a theory on its own. As is evoloution.

[Apple]

3.) In my opinion after reading this thread.(other than that it should be locked for people just arguing for the sake of arguing) I think God itself is a theory on its own. As is evoloution.

I couldn't agree more. :goodpost

[Now Evergreen]

I think this contains a lot of possibilities, and don't think it should be locked.

I mean, it's not a hateful, or trolling thread, it's just a debate (which isn't too hostile) over beliefs/values and whatnot.

I figure it's helping more than hurting until people start flaming and just disregarding gentleman-like behavior.

[MrMondayNite341]

Is this another Michael Moore film?

[Dothis]

WTF? Not everyone is a Christian huh? Well, not everyone believes in evolution/Darwinism. How's that for fair? You tell me.

Because it's studied in places of worship?

[kiwi18]

Merderous Apple this whole thread is everyone against you. Please stop starting all your sentences with WTF. And all I was saying about the Catholic Church vs. Harry Potter was that this is going to be very controversial with the Catholic Church. Stop acting like you know everything about religion because you don't. Thanks

[Apple]

Merderous Apple this whole thread is everyone against you. Please stop starting all your sentences with WTF. And all I was saying about the Catholic Church vs. Harry Potter was that this is going to be very controversial with the Catholic Church. Stop acting like you know everything about religion because you don't. Thanks

I don't get the point of what you are trying to say. This whole thread is not against me, read it. I don't start all my sentences with WTF, read them. Sorry if I came across as if I knew everything about religion, I don't and I wasn't trying to imply that. I'm quite sick of this. I saw the movie, I thought it was pretty good, and I hope all of you see it as well.

[Mothershed_52]

Hmm on another note..it did decent for being a Documentary, According to Yahoo:

"Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," a rare documentary opening in wide release, debuted at No. 9 with $3.1 million. Released by Rocky Mountain Pictures, the film features Ben Stein as he challenges Darwinian theories that prevail in academic circles and suggests that life could have emerged through intelligent design.

[drno]

Why are you guys trying to start arguments? Do you think any creationist wants to hear that? Leave it alone.
Well that's sortov like saying do you think any person wants to hear about their debt, do you think politicians want to deal with problems. Chances are the answer is no but people need to be aware of everything that is happening, knowing both sides of any story is the best way to get all the facts and then formulate an opinion.


It doesn't need to be mentioned in school. No religion does. Not everyone is a Christian and religion doesn't belong in school. If you wanna learn about religion, do it on your own..
WTF? Not everyone is a Christian huh? Well, not everyone believes in evolution/Darwinism. How's that for fair? You tell me.
Also, you do know they teach almost every religion in school, right? The thing they forget to mention is an alternate way of how the earth was created and formed. That is the problem.
Well in most cases religion and government are not supposed to be mixed in any way. Since public schools are government institutions they are not allowed to teach religious things. Hence why everyone freaks out that they say "under god" in the pledge of allegiance.

The movie is do demonstrate the "war on Christians" in America and around the world. It also talks about how if you were to ever to question Darwinism you would be shut out by the evolution community. For the sake of keeping a one-minded stance in every child's head. We can only hope that kids in this country actually think about what they believe in. Heaven-forbid people actually allow something other than evolution to be taught in schools.
Honestly, I would have liked to have had a "religion" class back in school. Unfortunately they only teach science class in school, although I would like to learn more about both sides I can't.

Also I think most people know the creationist theory. God did the whole create the world in the six days then rested on sunday. God then created Adam and Eve, put them in the Garden of Eden, then they got expelled and reproduced. There isn't much more than that but there is more to learn about from religion itself.

The crux of the matter is that education isn't about forcing beliefs on someone, it shouldn't be that way no matter what direction. The best form of education is raising awareness and demonstrating other beliefs, so that people can make their own informed decisions or not, right?
Unfortunately it seems like the beliefs weren't forced on people at the time back in the day but now parents want to be so "politically correct" they don't want their children to learn about religion. This generation seems to be the ones who aren't going to be getting that choice.


3.) In my opinion after reading this thread.(other than that it should be locked for people just arguing for the sake of arguing) I think God itself is a theory on its own. As is evoloution.
A lot of people feel that way. That's why people argue about stuff like this. Chances are if someone is arguing about something they believe strongly in it and aren't going to change their thoughts. People aren't arguing to convince the other to think their way, people argue to get the people who on on the fence to believe their way.

Personally, I'm an independent. I believe Christianity has some truth and good nature to it but extremists pull it out of proportion. Darwinism itself makes a lot of sense but it might be that I've had it shoved down my throat all these years. I'll stay wherever makes most sense at the time I am at.

[Now Evergreen]

I'm in the boat of being an atheist who doesn't bother explaining his actions really.

It's easier that way.

[narcolepticshee]

Murderous Apple - seriously man just shut up - for a religious guy, you are such a prick. Just stop pushing your own beliefs on everyone else - you started saying why is it not taught in school or some bullshit
(It's pretty much how america won't allow Christianity to even be mentioned in school, but they teach evolution/Darwinism as if this is the only way people believe the universe was created/formed.) which caused a reaction.

Here is your answer.

'
Evidence of Evolution
The Nobel Prize winning scientist Linus Pauling aptly described science as the search for truth. Science does this by continuously comparing its theories objectively with evidence in the natural world. When theories no longer conform to the evidence, they are modified or rejected in favor of new theories that do conform. In other words, science constantly tries to prove its assumptions to be false and rejects implausible explanations. In this way, scientific knowledge and understanding grow over time. Religious explanations for the order of things are not science because they are based primarily on faith and do not subject themselves to be objectively falsified. Because of this fundamental difference in the approach to understanding our natural world, the U.S. Supreme Court in effect decided in 1987 that the Biblically based "creation science" is not a science and cannot be taught as such in public schools as an alternative or in addition to the mainstream evolutionary theory of the biological sciences. However, religious creation stories and the idea of "intelligent design" can be taught in philosophy, religion, or history courses. Religion and Science provide different approaches to knowledge. It is important to understand both.'


Fact is everyone has their own opinions - if you can't take others opinions then just don't comment - because if you do, you sound like a prick


Peace

[Jicholls]

Also I think most people know the creationist theory. God did the whole create the world in the six days then rested on sunday. God then created Adam and Eve, put them in the Garden of Eden, then they got expelled and reproduced. There isn't much more than that but there is more to learn about from religion itself.

I don't mean to be a smart ass here... but doesn't that make us all imbreds :woop:

Nah im only joking the story of Adam and Eve is FICTION. Priests in Ireland accept that. I think.

[Apple]

Murderous Apple...for a religious guy, you are such a prick. Just stop pushing your own beliefs on everyone else

How am I pushing my beliefs on everyone else? Oh, maybe it was when I mentioned that people should see this movie. Wait, maybe it was when I said that Christianity isn't allow to be mentioned in schools. Hmm, it could of been when I said stop causing arguments everyone. No probably not though.

So if anyone is pushing their beliefs on anyone, it's you. I don't want to deal with babies (that's you), stop calling me names and please contribute to the discussion or stop posting in this thread. It's people like you that make threads on (movies, of all things) to be closed because of excessive arguing. You somehow can't except the fact that someone actually believes something different than you and actually has a valid point. And no, I didn't read the rest of that non-sense in your post.

Sorry for contributing to the argument in some ways. It's hard when you have a bunch of people/kids taking everything you say out of context as if it proves their point even more. I wouldn't be surprised or even mind seeing this thread closed.

[martin88]

I'm on apple's side here. He is advocating I.D, but not in a forceful way.

[CR JD92]

Hey for anyone who has seen this move i have a question, i watched the preview a while back, so i may be wrong but i thought in the preview it seemed like they were saying there accually r some facts or evidence supporting creationism? But that they kept getting shut out every time they brought it up? iunno it was some time ago that i watched it, just curoius of what it talks about in the film.

[Apple]

Hey for anyone who has seen this move i have a question, i watched the preview a while back, so i may be wrong but i thought in the preview it seemed like they were saying there accually r some facts or evidence supporting creationism? But that they kept getting shut out every time they brought it up? iunno it was some time ago that i watched it, just curoius of what it talks about in the film.

I don't recall anything like that in the film. If you ask me, it's not really a fight for Christianity in this documentary, but rather a fight against Darwinism/evolution. Some of the movie deals with Hitler and his beliefs in Darwinism. They tie the "Natural Selection" portion of Darwinism to what Hitler was trying to accomplish, to rid all mentally ill for new, better generations.

[Illution]

Aww, it's not playing in me theater :(. I wanted to see this ever since I saw the preview a little while ago. One, because Ben Stein is my hero!! and two because it looked quite interesting.

may have to check where it's playing but I dunno I'd need someone with a car to take me over yonder.

heh
oh yeah everyone shut up unless your talking about the movie kthx :)
I <3 u all 2

[Thrak360]

I'm interested in seeing this, but it it sounds like less of a documentary, and more of a propoganda piece with a clear agenda. It's a nice idea to associate Darwin with Hitler, but Darwin in no way advocated a Holocaust. There's an interesting analysis of the movie in this short Scientific American article. Take the time to read it, and decide if Expelled is an unbiased viewpoint.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=six-things-ben-stein-doesnt-want-you-to-know&sc=rss