DLC Achievements: Death of a Renter's Gamerscore?

[The Pants Party]

With the growing trend of companies adding gamerscore to their games, the problem I (and many other gamers) now face appears to be a question of completion. Most games will now have to be completed twice (once to 1,000 and then again to 1,250 when the content is released), but for a renter, this may not even be an option. I currently only own two games, Burnout Revenge given to me for my birthday last year and Crackdown which thusfar has been the only game I've been compelled to buy. As such, for any games that I have completed through rental that decide to up their GS for the extra 250, I will have to choose wether not only to re-rent the game, but also purchase the content for it. I highly doubt companies will spend the extra money to release a second edition of the game with the extra content on it, or even if they do, would companies like Gamefly and Gameznflix choose to get rid of their "first editions" and stock the "second editions" so gamers could have all the content available through rental?

Does anyone else feel as offended as I do by this? It was a great thought and I was excited at first, but in practice I feel it could really screw Rental Gamers like myself out of their 100%'s, not to mention the overall total of their Gamerscore.

[Rocket]

Wow, thats a great point you make there man. I never seen it that way. I think what they are trying to do by this is give more to owners of games more so just renters. It sucks, but its kinda like saying, hey you bought this so this is what we are going to do for you, as opposesed to just people who rent the game...it sucks and I feel for you and those like you I really do, but you gotta remember for Microsoft and the game companies, they don't get money when you rent the game, they get the original 60 from the company you rent it from then said company usually triples if not more, the profit of said game...so its just one of those situations where its better to buy certain games rather than rent...

[Low Beau]

Yeah, I agree with both of you, luckily I own Oblivion (not $30 yet, but that will come)

What they should have done was make a sub-game achievement thing. So Oblivion would stay at 1000, then Somewhere else if you have played it it would say Oblivion:Shivering Isles - 250, That way the completionist renters don't have to be screwed. But at the same time all the guys with millions of dollars can pay $30 bucks a game for a lil' extra content.

I know for a fact that once ALL games start to implement this bullshit, everyone's completed games will go WAY down.

I for one don't have $90 to spend on every damn game that thinks adding a lil' content and new achievements is a good idea (MARVEL, UA)

[LoadedCannon]

I feel for you man but i've got to admit i like companies breathing new life into a good game, if they stuck an extra 250g on gears of course i'd re-rent it, however, i don't like the fear of ubisoft sticking an extra 250g on a crap game like blazing angels.

I agree a completists attitude might have to change depending on this as i have a big problem buying content for crap games.

[ac2565]

What they should have done was make a sub-game achievement thing. So Oblivion would stay at 1000, then Somewhere else if you have played it it would say Oblivion:Shivering Isles - 250, That way the completionist renters don't have to be screwed. But at the same time all the guys with millions of dollars can pay $30 bucks a game for a lil' extra content.

I know for a fact that once ALL games start to implement this bullshit, everyone's completed games will go WAY down.

I for one don't have $90 to spend on every damn game that thinks adding a lil' content and new achievements is a good idea (MARVEL, UA)

Who said it is $30 dollars? Just becuase one game is 30 dollars doesnt mean everything else is. Just look at marvel UA. The most you spend is 10 dollars.

[graemelunn]

I personally think that DLC is a great thing - for years now PC gamers have had the option of improving their initial gaming experience by buying expansion packs whereas console owners have just had to make do with the initial release - thus getting less shelf life for their (usually) more money.

As far as rentals go - this shouldn't be an issue if you are a member of a rental service with a fixed monthly fee so that the repeat rental technically doesn't cost you anything except time and effort.

As a person whom buys the majority of their titles, I welcome the idea of DLC for games that I have spent up to £50 on to extend my value for money.

What concerns me is that should the initial wave of achievement boosting be a great success (which i PRESUME it will be) that as Loaded Cannon eludes to, we may be faced with an influx of DLC for some of the crap games we have gritted our teeth though in search of the 1000gs reward.

I would like to see some of this DLC to be free as I personally believe that we pay enough for the games in the first place.

[Dark Fury]

I don't see it as a problem. I'd never be so addicted to achievements that i'd complain about extra content..

[Displace]

Personally, I would still consider Oblivion completed if you have 1000/1000 unless you actually did download the content. I didn't download it yet, but I am assuming it wouldn't read 1000/1250 unless you actually purchased shivering isles. I'm sure I could be wrong though.

[Rusty187]

With the growing trend of companies adding gamerscore to their games, the problem I (and many other gamers) now face appears to be a question of completion. Most games will now have to be completed twice (once to 1,000 and then again to 1,250 when the content is released), but for a renter, this may not even be an option. I currently only own two games, Burnout Revenge given to me for my birthday last year and Crackdown which thusfar has been the only game I've been compelled to buy. As such, for any games that I have completed through rental that decide to up their GS for the extra 250, I will have to choose wether not only to re-rent the game, but also purchase the content for it. I highly doubt companies will spend the extra money to release a second edition of the game with the extra content on it, or even if they do, would companies like Gamefly and Gameznflix choose to get rid of their "first editions" and stock the "second editions" so gamers could have all the content available through rental?

Does anyone else feel as offended as I do by this? It was a great thought and I was excited at first, but in practice I feel it could really screw Rental Gamers like myself out of their 100%'s, not to mention the overall total of their Gamerscore. i gotta say that even tho i like the idea of DLC it also bothers me as a gamer abit cause i too am a game renter. ive also owned a couple of games and got rid of them. and because im a gamerscore whore i now have to either re-rent them or re-buy them plus the new content. and in canada depending on where you go to rent games they can cost from 6-12 dollars(blockbuster in canada charges like 11.89 for a five day rental and just last year they were only around 8 bucks) i rent from a local game store now as they are the cheapest in town. and with DLC like oblivion that cost roughly 30 dollars well that dosent exactly make it a cheap 250 points. i love that they are expanding games but its costing me alot more money. mircosoft knew they had a billion dollar idea when they released the whole achievement thing. and i dont hate them for it at all i love unlocking achievements so far ive unlocked 680 of them, and many more coming in the near future. i just hope that the devs dont get out of hand with the cost of DLC as 30 bucks for oblivion is a little steap. but only time will tell

[darquesyde]

What they should have done was make a sub-game achievement thing. So Oblivion would stay at 1000, then Somewhere else if you have played it it would say Oblivion:Shivering Isles - 250, That way the completionist renters don't have to be screwed. But at the same time all the guys with millions of dollars can pay $30 bucks a game for a lil' extra content.

I rent and buy, and I was hoping your sub-achievement idea was going to happen, that way people could still have 100% even if they didn't chose to to the add-on. But when they mentioned that the games won't have to have 1000 points at get out (Crackdown 900 with 100 at a later date), then I knew that because of coding/timing issues they would almost have to group it all in...and that would be the end of the 1000 games. 1250 still looks funny to me.

But because of this, I am no longer really in need of getting the extra content for games I rent just for the gamerscore. Why would I need to waste harddrive space? So they lose the extra money from me but they gain it for all the people who bought it...so I guess it all balances out.

[Displace]

I definately feel the pain of the renters out their. Even though I don't rent, I feel like I am in a similar position in the case of Marvel Ultimate Alliance. About a month ago I sold it. With the recent DLC news I would have definately held on to it.

Another issue I have is in regards to Oblivion. I played it under my old gamertag which was Displace at the time. I changed it to Displace 360, so I could put my new account under my old name. I made a new account because I wasn't aware that I would never be able to change my windows live ID associated with the account. I used my girlfriends hotmail account to set up my original gamertag and found it very annoying since she changes her password frequently, and it's always long. Again, I would have never done it if I knew I wouldn't be able to change my windows live ID. Anyway, I had 1000/1000 in Oblivion under my old tag, and the best I could hope for on my new one is 250/1250 unless I restart the game. (This is based on yet another assumption that I won't have a problem using a flash drive to transfer saves from my old to new gamertag, didn't try yet, but I think I heard somewhere that it would work.)

All in all, their is nothing I can do about it, and I would still prefer the new content to have achievements. I just know I am going to have this little itch until I put another 200 hrs into Oblivion.

[The Pants Party]

Personally, I would still consider Oblivion completed if you have 1000/1000 unless you actually did download the content. I didn't download it yet, but I am assuming it wouldn't read 1000/1250 unless you actually purchased shivering isles. I'm sure I could be wrong though.

Yeah, that's the thing, as soon as the content is available, your 100% disappears and shows the new content on your profile. That's the biggest problem I have with it, because even if I have no plan to ever try the new content, it laughs in my face and ruins my 100% completion of the game.

I understand companies want people to buy their games instead of just renting, it's a Capitalist world afterall, but my situation just won't allow it, so I do the best I can with online rentals. I'd like to continue to have a good completion percentage, but I just can't see it happening this way. We'll see how generous companies are with re-releases on disc having the content on them, but I doubt it.

[Cross Fire]

Personally, I would still consider Oblivion completed if you have 1000/1000 unless you actually did download the content. I didn't download it yet, but I am assuming it wouldn't read 1000/1250 unless you actually purchased shivering isles. I'm sure I could be wrong though.
just look at graw, even if you never played the updated version when it was released your gamercard and information still stated that you had only blank of 1000, so im thinking its going to be the same for the new released information on the new games. i personally dont care about completeing games all the way to 100%, i aim there while getting achievements and if i get there good if i dont oh well. but i feel you guy's pains, lol

[Project KG]

just look at graw, even if you never played the updated version when it was released your gamercard and information still stated that you had only blank of 1000, so im thinking its going to be the same for the new released information on the new games. i personally dont care about completeing games all the way to 100%, i aim there while getting achievements and if i get there good if i dont oh well. but i feel you guy's pains, lolYeah but the problem is if it was an easy 1000 but a boring and annoying game to complete we have to go through that pain for a measely 250 points. Not cool.

[Low Beau]

Personally, I would still consider Oblivion completed if you have 1000/1000 unless you actually did download the content. I didn't download it yet, but I am assuming it wouldn't read 1000/1250 unless you actually purchased shivering isles. I'm sure I could be wrong though.

yeah, you're wrong bro.

[TheColdWolf]

I feel fine about this really becuase it gives me a chance to go back and re-rent all my games, and compleat them at a 100%, which i couldn't do in the past, and try to do that now, like i am re-renting Splinter Cell Double Agent, from gamesnflix and i am going to go straight for the Multiplayer, and then for the campaign ones just to get all 100% on it, and i already have started to go back to Need For speed most wanted, PGR3, and other gams.

[JJBDude]

I don't see it as a problem really, you lot all seem to be moaning over nothing. Does it really matter if you don't have your 100% on a game anymore? People will be able to see you got 1000 gamerscore and they'll know that you never bought the update so your unable to finish off the achievements.

I'm just going to keep on renting and having fun, this means nothing to me.

[Rusty187]

ok this is a stupid reason but its the only one i have. this only bothers a bit because im a 360voice member and the DLC affects my badges for that site and much like achievements i have became addicted to the badges at 360 voice, i just lost my complete 5 retail games badge because of the new DLC for oblivion. other then that i could really care less cause i now im going to end up buying some DLC for some of my games to boost my gamerscore. i just wish if you dont dl the extra content that it woulend affect your % thats all

[Displace]

I definately feel the pain of the renters out their. Even though I don't rent, I feel like I am in a similar position in the case of Marvel Ultimate Alliance. About a month ago I sold it. With the recent DLC news I would have definately held on to it.

Another issue I have is in regards to Oblivion. I played it under my old gamertag which was Displace at the time. I changed it to Displace 360, so I could put my new account under my old name. I made a new account because I wasn't aware that I would never be able to change my windows live ID associated with the account. I used my girlfriends hotmail account to set up my original gamertag and found it very annoying since she changes her password frequently, and it's always long. Again, I would have never done it if I knew I wouldn't be able to change my windows live ID. Anyway, I had 1000/1000 in Oblivion under my old tag, and the best I could hope for on my new one is 250/1250 unless I restart the game. (This is based on yet another assumption that I won't have a problem using a flash drive to transfer saves from my old to new gamertag, didn't try yet, but I think I heard somewhere that it would work.)

All in all, their is nothing I can do about it, and I would still prefer the new content to have achievements. I just know I am going to have this little itch until I put another 200 hrs into Oblivion.

Yeah, I realized last night that I was wrong about, pretty much, everything I said in that post.

Anyway, now that I've seen the light, I do think it's pretty screwed up. It's like they want to create a whole that all of the achievement junkies feel a need to fill. Brilliant, from a marketing perspective, but it kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I was happy with my 810/100 in Marvel:UA. 810/1250 doesnt look so good.

Also, had to start Oblivion again from scratch last night, kinda annoyed that my level 49 character is stuck on my old gamertag.

[CC99999]

It's actually a sound financial decision for the developers and Microsoft. Games have notoriously short shelf lives. By adding an incentive for people to show continued interest in a title- it adds to the game's profitability. Achievements are actually a good sales leader for 360 games over other platforms (Although most people don't actually own every game).

I would hope that Microsoft would issue a list of which titles have planned additional content / achievements so gamers with these titles could make decisions about trading in/ keeping games.

[DanielFullard]

DLC is a great innovation and Im looking forward to a future in which old games are constantly given new life. Developers (like EA) have already abused this but overall its a great service so far.

Adding achievements is a good step as it means there is an extar incentive to play through but at the end of the day Im not gonna pay 800-2,400points for content of a bad game just for 250 points

[dchispirtle]

Personally, I would still consider Oblivion completed if you have 1000/1000 unless you actually did download the content. I didn't download it yet, but I am assuming it wouldn't read 1000/1250 unless you actually purchased shivering isles. I'm sure I could be wrong though.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Because of the auto updates for the game, if you pop it in your console after the DLC is made available you must get the update or otherwise you won't be able to access Live. Therefore, the game will only show 1000/1250.

[xDumpWeLLxTBMx]

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Because of the auto updates for the game, if you pop it in your console after the DLC is made available you must get the update or otherwise you won't be able to access Live. Therefore, the game will only show 1000/1250.

Thats exactly what im trippin on, how many games am I gonna have that read ?/1250 now?

[lethalshaun]

While adding content/gamerscore points is great to extend the life of the game, it really just comes down to whether I (or the individual) really need it. I mean, I liked Marvel UA, but I played it to death and don't feel compelled to spend more money to play with new characters while some might. Also, I like Oblivion but don't own it, so spending thirty bucks for an addition to game I don't own seems like a waste (especially if I try to get the GS points...only 250? Pass.) I think it depends on the game. Crackdown might be a good shot, it's a fun game still so unless the price is outrageous, I can see myself getting the DLC. I can see how seeing the ?/1250 will irk some people, but unless you think it's worth it, don't worry about it. Save your money/ms points for something you'll need.

[PWSteal.Ldpinch.D]

Well, the only solution for this is to not play the games that you know will add an extra 250 gamerscore. Sucks but what can we do about it?

[graemelunn]

Dont want to fuel the fire of controversy here but I believe that you are looking at your personal situations here rather that the bigger picture.
Games are not designed to be rentals. They are released to retail for the purpose of being purchased.
The games rental industry has only become as hugely widespread as it has because the key demographic of gamers can't afford to purchase all the games which they wish to play.
DLC is designed (yes as a money generating mechanism Mr. Cynic) to give optional additional value to a game which a consumer has already purchased.

Any feelings of being hard done by because you have to re-rent a title etc. to get extra points from DLC really dont come into it.

Quite simple - like a game that much, buy it. Not all that bothered? Well, you'll have rented it and as such won't be bothered about the DLC either...

[Smokez]

I haven't played Oblivion since August so it only shows 590/1000. If you want to keep the completion then just play the games offline without the update or don't play them at all once the new achievements come out. Because on Oblivion the only way the new achievements will show on ur card is if you update it and MUA is the same way. Just don't Update the game and your 1000/1000 will be fine

[spartancell]

for me oblivion still showed the new achievements even though i hadn't played since december

[ThrillKillBill]

With the growing trend of companies adding gamerscore to their games, the problem I (and many other gamers) now face appears to be a question of completion. Most games will now have to be completed twice (once to 1,000 and then again to 1,250 when the content is released), but for a renter, this may not even be an option. I currently only own two games, Burnout Revenge given to me for my birthday last year and Crackdown which thusfar has been the only game I've been compelled to buy. As such, for any games that I have completed through rental that decide to up their GS for the extra 250, I will have to choose wether not only to re-rent the game, but also purchase the content for it. I highly doubt companies will spend the extra money to release a second edition of the game with the extra content on it, or even if they do, would companies like Gamefly and Gameznflix choose to get rid of their "first editions" and stock the "second editions" so gamers could have all the content available through rental?

Does anyone else feel as offended as I do by this? It was a great thought and I was excited at first, but in practice I feel it could really screw Rental Gamers like myself out of their 100%'s, not to mention the overall total of their Gamerscore.


wow. first off, very well put. i myself haven't rented a video game since the original NES days. i never once even considered your point of view as a possiblility and while it won't change my personal opiniun on DLC (which varies from game to game) i can see how this'll effectivly alienate a whole genre of gamers. i like to own games, i keep the inserts and cases shelved. some friends say i'm a lil' anal about my games condition but its something i'm proud of. i take care of my novels the same way. (and until recently DvDs) i'm a lil offended along you because it's a ploy, almost a ultimatuim to force you as a "renter" gamer to be more like me. i'm sorry your being "forced" to choose between points and whether or not a game is worth re-renting. it's not fair, but at the same time i want some of the DLC thats been released because i do like to play my games differently. i used to love it when ppl emulated a game and changed it from oh say "turtles to jesus" (really woulda liked to have tried that if a certain person would like to un-scrap that project). it enhances the whole experience for me.

i think on some titles they might release the "gold" edition with the extra content like CoD3 did but for most titles your just out of luck friend. but on the bright side, i don't think the oncoming thrend will be a huge as you fear, many companies will just be too lazy to deal with releasing more DLC.

maybe, just maybe you know somebody in real life who'd let ya borrow a game or 2 from time to time?

[DFILL450]

dam i was just thinking this same exact thing the other day wen i saw the new crackdown achievements. I was wondering if i should go ahead and rent it again or if i shud just forget about it..i have gamfly rite now and im really happy with it..but its stupid now that i wud have to rerent games to complete them. Its a good idea however if ur buying the games because then wen its just sitting there colecting dust u have extra content to play with. I believe games should just b released with all 1250 pts cuz im a renter and cant afford to buy games.

[Im a Manatee]

No way is that going to happen, and you're being selfish in demanding that all 1250 points be released right away.

It's a great thing, and it rewards those who like to play their games to death.

[jackanape]

I think it would be impossible for developers to say for sure if they were going to release extra DLC, as they would probably wait and see how the game did first and see if they had any other ideas.

The Oblivion add on was a matter of course as Elder Scorlls games always get extra stuff on the PC so it was the natural evolution on the 360. Whereas the Marvel and Crackdown content seems like more of a cheap cash in by developers as neither adds anything new to the game really - you basically get the points from playing the same game again but doing a little bit more. At least Oblivion added a whole new area and missions etc.