Microsoft takes a stand against Achievement Cheating!

[ArneZ]

Not sure if this one has been postet here before but its a great read..
from http://www.2old2play.com:

The underground world of Achievement Cheating via trading gamesaves has been delt a big blow post-fall Dashboard Update. In the past year, a few websites have spawned on the internet as a place to upload your save game to just before unlocking an achievement. With some save games all you have to do is load it up and play 1 game and you unlock 1000 points worth of achievements !

People at the top of the Achievement Point leader boards have admitted to using gamesaves to keep pace. The former World #1 Ranked player ST The King retired because of all the cheating that has started happening. Now there's even a service where they will recover your gamertag on their system and play as you to get you achievement points, all you have to do is pay them some cash. I assume they are/were using save games as well.

So how does all this Game Save trading work? Well save games fall into 3 different categories (pre-fall Dashboard update). Some saved games are Unlocked which are generally games prior to April 06. This means you can freely trade these with anyone. The recipient just loads the game which typically is saved just before an achievement , does the action and up pops the Achievement toast. Some gamesaves are console locked which are typically games after April 06. These gamesaves have an ID tag embedded in them that is specific to the console it's made on. In order to use that game save, a 'Bypass' method was discovered that will trick the gamesave into playing on a different console. The last method of locking game saves is profile locked. The only way to use gamesaves that are profile locked is to also trade gamer tags with people in the gamesave community. When you recover the account and load up the game, the toast pops up. I would have thought that would award the achievements to the account recovery player who already has them and not the cheater but I guess this works somehow.

Microsoft is well aware that such cheating devalues the Achievement system. It has become such a problem that they are now actively trying to stop this from happening. The fall Dashboard introduces a hybrid locking system which renders most of these cheating tactics useless. Only some of the 'unlocked' style game saves currently work and to guarantee they work, they need to be re-done on an updated Xbox360 and then re-uploaded to a game sharing site. These game sharing sites are actively testing old game saves and there are a handful of games saves that are still giving up the goods free of charge.

I personally think Microsoft should encrypt the game using a 2 key system that uses the profile ID and the hardware ID as the keys. That would pretty much guarantee a game save couldn't be shared with anyone.

Word at MyGamercard.net is that they will also be setting up an algorithm that will flag gamertags they track as possible cheaters based on how many points they unlock in a day. If someone unlocks all 1000 points in Oblivion in 1 day, they're quite obviously cheating. I don't care how much time you have, there's absolutely no way anyone could get through all 1000 points of Oblivion in a single 24h period. So MyGamercard.net is aware of the problem and is working to flag cheaters or profiles of interest. I would expect other sites to follow suite.

The one method of 'cheating' that seemingly can't be stopped though is sharing your gamer tag with someone and having them play the game for you because you don't have time or it's not your type of game. There's also the method of hooking up with friends on Live strictly to unlock achievements. You can trade wins or whatever is needed to unlock achievements fast which is why online achievements are really pointless.

In the end though, not all Achievement cheating can be stopped. Much like game leaderboards, the Achievement leaderboard's top level is plagued with cheaters. But who really are they cheating? Achievement points aren't worth anything so why do people cheat to obtain them? I guess that's a question to dig into an future news article.

[MATTUMUZ]

That's good news that they've finally started taking action!

Thx
MATTUMUZ

[Smokez]

If someone unlocks all 1000 points in Oblivion in 1 day, they're quite obviously cheating. I don't care how much time you have, there's absolutely no way anyone could get through all 1000 points of Oblivion in a single 24h period.

Remind anyone of something? But thats great news they actually care

[magictroll]

There's also the method of hooking up with friends on Live strictly to unlock achievements. You can trade wins or whatever is needed to unlock achievements fast which is why online achievements are really pointless.

So is this considered cheating by M$? We've all done it before and I, for one, feel not guilt doing it. By my score I'm sure no one thinks I use Gamesaves because that's just horribly wrong. But Achievement trading still involves work.

Is it cheating? Yes if the other person lets you win. That's like throwing a fight while boxing. Its not the way the sport was intended to be played. Is it immoral? I don't think so but you can viably argue that it is...

[Kaens]

If someone unlocks all 1000 points in Oblivion in 1 day, they're quite obviously cheating. I don't care how much time you have, there's absolutely no way anyone could get through all 1000 points of Oblivion in a single 24h period.

Remind anyone of something? But thats great news they actually care
God I'm like so tempted to go rebuy Oblivion and try it just for the challenge. I think you seriously underestimate how fast you can beat that game if you know what your doing. And yes, I posted this same comment in the thread that we originally talked about this article ;)

First you put all the sliders down to make it easy as it gets. Then you go through until you get can get into the mages guild. Now with your stolen grand soul gems make yourself 100% camouflage armor and a weapon with numerous procs, one of which is soultrap so it automatically refills itself. Arena you can blow through like nothing. Make sure your weapons skills and armor skills are secondary so you DON'T level because the mobs are scaled to your level.

You only get in fights when you want to, because the mobs cannot see you and even when you do hit them they can't hit you back.. it's just a matter of running through the game.

[Zef]

So is this considered cheating by M$? We've all done it before and I, for one, feel not guilt doing it. By my score I'm sure no one thinks I use Gamesaves because that's just horribly wrong. But Achievement trading still involves work.

Is it cheating? Yes if the other person lets you win. That's like throwing a fight while boxing. Its not the way the sport was intended to be played. Is it immoral? I don't think so but you can viably argue that it is...

How would Microsoft differentiate between people meeting up to play a game and those playing just for achievements?

I used to play spontaneous GRAW matches for hours on a single game type with the same people doing the same things, but we weren't going for achievements.

Some achievements need you to have some organising before it even being possible to attempt. Old games that aren't played as much don't have as many people online, so it is a hell of a lot easier to ask other people whether they want to play and aim to unlock some achievement or another.

Gamesaves are pretty stupid, lending someone your gamertag even more so. If they stole your account would you contact Microsoft to tell them someone stole it because you were trying to cheat, which would probably get you banned or something.

Still, it's up to the suits what will happen.

[Smokez]

If Oblivion was that easy to beat in 4 hours people would have done. l for one have 100+ hours on it and i only have 590 in it but l have been doing everything there is to do in the game. You do kno how long it is to get across that whole map and some of the quests take a couple game days to do. And if you get kicked outta the mages guild like i did then you cant do it because its so hard to find all 40 of those flowers and you also have to find i think 10 Ninroot, so if you get the game l wanna see this. l dont think its possible and obviously neither does MS

[Kaens]

If Oblivion was that easy to beat in 4 hours people would have done. l for one have 100+ hours on it and i only have 590 in it but l have been doing everything there is to do in the game. You do kno how long it is to get across that whole map and some of the quests take a couple game days to do. And if you get kicked outta the mages guild like i did then you cant do it because its so hard to find all 40 of those flowers and you also have to find i think 10 Ninroot, so if you get the game l wanna see this. l dont think its possible and obviously neither does MS
Okay, next time I'm in the store I'm going to grab it. And I'm going to have to do this on my booster account of course, Kaens Booster, since I already have these achievements.

Edit: Oh and btw, I didn't play it like that myself. I spent 180 hours the first three weeks getting my 1000. But that doesn't mean I don't see ways to shorten the time if you only care about the points. Two days max. Anyone want to race me?

[CrakkedOut56]

I personally think Microsoft should encrypt the game using a 2 key system that uses the profile ID and the hardware ID as the keys. That would pretty much guarantee a game save couldn't be shared with anyone.

*cough*HexEditorAnyone?*cough*

If someone unlocks all 1000 points in Oblivion in 1 day, they're quite obviously cheating. I don't care how much time you have, there's absolutely no way anyone could get through all 1000 points of Oblivion in a single 24h period.Oh really. Can I ask why not? whats the main quest about 5hours or so. Fast traveling cuts down the time aswell.

I think im going to make a silver account, rent this game and make a day out of it. :woop: . Ill just take pics when i receive the achievements. Beer n smoke smokey smoke will be a part of it.

Does anyone know if Windows Movie Maker has a limit on how long it can record video from a webcam??

[Kaens]

I think im going to make a silver account, rent this game and make a day out of it. :woop: . Ill just take pics when i receive the achievements. Beer n smoke smokey smoke will be a part of it.

Does anyone know if Windows Movie Maker has a limit on how long it can record video from a webcam??
Do it man! I made a thread here (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14022) about the challenge. So far just me and my bud, but it'd be cool if we had more people trying it.

[invincible rob]

I agree, Oblivion is possible in one day, I reckon It'll take about ten hours and you will have to know two things:
1) how to get a thousand, all the guilds and ever main mission
2) how to make an overall charactor, by over all I mean a charactor thats good at just about everything.

[Smokez]

Until l see someone do this in 1 day its impossible to me. Yes you can Fast Travel but you have to go to every Location first. But if you do this Congrats to you. You wouldnt have to record all 24 hours tho you could take a pic of when u start to play, every achievement with the time and when you finish if before the day is over

[CrakkedOut56]

If Oblivion was that easy to beat in 4 hours people would have done.
You do kno how long it is to get across that whole map
The MAIN Storyline is 4-5, 6 hours TOPS.

As far as getting across a map. Thats just a point "Y"(i think) button away lol. Fast Travel > walking.




hmmm, Maybe I can do a live feed? I have ZERO idea on how I would go about doing that tho. Is there anyone kind enough to point me to a site with directions on how to do that??

[Monsterbox]

If you've played the game before (for example on the PC) or have a walkthrough and turn the difficulty all the way down you can make a run through of Oblivion in a few hours. I did the whole thing in about 9 days of casual play. I didn't have a walkthrough (except for the Thieves Guild stuff) and generally didn't have much of a clue of what I was doing and spent time screwing around with stuff and still managed to get 1000 points in what turns out to be probably around 18 to 20 hours or so of gameplay. If you go blasting head-down through the game hitting only the essentials as fast as possible, I'm sure you could run through Oblivion in a single sitting.

Actually, I'm getting a sense of deja vu from this, I feel almost as if I've said this all before (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12166)...

[Smokez]

Your Telling me that u can fast travel to any location before ever going there? Because it wasnt like that when i played it. Also l have to disagree that the Main Quest takes 6 hours tops. Because of all the oblvion gates you have to close and find stuff in caves and deliever but the fast travel comes in handy when returning. But if you just put in oblivion you couldnt beat it so fast without already playing it before.

[Crash]

Do it man! I made a thread here (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14022) about the challenge. So far just me and my bud, but it'd be cool if we had more people trying it.
I would love to try it myself, but I don't think I could make time to get 24 hours for gaming (between wife, kids, and stuff I need to do around the house). I definately think it's possible to do though, as long as you don't worry about any side quests, stick to your missions, and use quick travel wisely, it wouldn't take long at all to 1000 it. Good luck on your challenge, wish I could join you.

[DaKing240]

You know... this would make an interesting type of contest for the site... so please do not do anything until I talk it over with admin... maybe we can get some prizes for whoever gets the furthest on the game in a 24 hour period.

[CrakkedOut56]

Because of all the oblvion gates you have to close
Oblivion Gates are a breeze.

You know... this would make an interesting type of contest for the site... so please do not do anything until I talk it over with admin... maybe we can get some prizes for whoever gets the furthest on the game in a 24 hour period.
:uzi::uzi::uzi::uzi:Get a move on it! :uzi::uzi::uzi::uzi:

lol

Your Telling me that u can fast travel to any location before ever going there?
No, but once you do get to the locations then it is a breeze. Ill just steal a horse

[Kaens]

You know... this would make an interesting type of contest for the site... so please do not do anything until I talk it over with admin... maybe we can get some prizes for whoever gets the furthest on the game in a 24 hour period.
Well the admins are all around, I'm not starting til Sat night if they want to do something then I'll hold off til whenever they want to do it. Otherwise me & Psyanyde are trying this weekend.
Oblivion Gates are a breeze.
Exactly, with 100% camo'ed you just run to the top. You don't even have to fight anyone.

[CrakkedOut56]

Exactly, with 100% camo'ed you just run to the top. You don't even have to fight anyone.
I just ran by them anyway lol.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3710/dec070001dh7.jpg

it..is..on..like..donkey..kong..

[chaos bz]

It is possible, no doubt, and good luck to you guys.

[RedBlinky]

24 hours is a long time i guarantee you could do it.... Especially if you were just blitzing through for the achievements the quests only take 20 minutes a piece or so top thats at the most i'd say except for the oblivion gates... and Quests like "help for bruma" aren't required all 1000 could easily be done in 24 hours probably less that 20.

[Krazie]

Alright guys, this has gotten EXTREMELY off-topic. Keep to the subject at hand. Feel free to make a post about this in the Oblivion forum if you woud like to, as this is all great stuff and I can't wait to see how it pans out :p

But this topic is WAY out in no-man's land right now. Even if this has been discussed many times over, and this article is fairly old, it's very good information to read ;P

[Kaens]

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3710/dec070001dh7.jpg

Hey Crakked, what login id are you going to use? Send a FR to Kaens Booster and we can keep track of how we're both doing.